IRC log for #brlcad on 20090826

00:11.58 ``Erik ssshhhhh
00:19.20 starseeker NNooooooo. Jeez SCO, DIE already
00:22.42 starseeker wonders who told them dead horse beating was an Olympic sport...
00:29.28 ``Erik wasn't that yesterday? or was that this morning
00:49.00 Yoshi47 brlcad, how the rendering coming on that impeller
00:49.23 Yoshi47 or is it going to take all night
00:49.34 ``Erik I imagine he's not at his 'puter
00:49.44 Yoshi47 whys that
00:50.10 yukonbob facepalms
00:51.05 starseeker he's gone home
00:52.21 Yoshi47 oh
01:47.41 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35711 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: OK, might actually be generating the right surface corner points now.
02:03.55 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03johnranderson * r35712 10/jbrlcad/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
02:03.55 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: Ray, Hit, and Partition are now Externalizable.
02:03.55 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: Added a test for Hit.
02:37.17 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35713 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start to rough out (and I stress the rough part) the remainder of the logic for nmg->brep
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03:41.48 talcite ahh finally figured out how to use Koji. We're going to get a ppc and SPARC build if all goes well! =D
04:52.11 *** part/#brlcad fenn (n=fenn@cpe-72-177-121-73.austin.res.rr.com)
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07:37.37 talcite well, the builds on ppc, ppc64, i386, x86_64
07:38.41 *** join/#brlcad Axman6_ (n=Axman6@pdpc/supporter/student/Axman6)
07:40.47 talcite are working*
07:40.56 talcite =S I should probably sleep now. I'm not making sense anymore
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12:03.31 starseeker brlcad: would volumetric representations be considered explicit primitives?
12:19.45 Yoshi47 is it always this quiet when im not talking...
12:22.16 Axman6 yes
12:34.03 Yoshi47 lol
12:54.03 *** join/#brlcad jdoliner (n=jdoliner@c-68-51-75-169.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
12:58.19 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03jdoliner * r35714 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/ (surfaceintersect.cpp surfaceintersect.h): Added function CurveCurveIntersect, which replaces the ON_Curve::IntersectCurve function since it isn't actually implemented.
13:07.27 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Jdoliner 07http://brlcad.org * r1607 10/wiki/User:Jdoliner:
13:07.29 brlcad starseeker: I've always thought of them as implicit/explicit hybrids
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13:09.27 brlcad explicit regular data but that implies some given volume -- the geometry itself is implicit but it's distinct enough that the literature generally considers it a separate case altogether
13:09.39 brlcad Yoshi47: it comes in waves
13:09.49 Yoshi47 ah
13:09.49 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35715 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: Various changes to reflect new verbose setting
13:10.03 Yoshi47 hows the rendering coming
13:10.21 brlcad non-stop chatter for days, then really quiet, then tons of non-stop commit messges, etc :)
13:10.40 brlcad oh, I'm sure it's finished .. but I'm not at that machine for another hour or so
13:11.07 brlcad i'm sure it's done, it should have finished after about an hour
13:12.36 brlcad jdoliner: awesome :)
13:13.15 brlcad except for the overlap problem..
13:14.14 jdoliner yeah
13:14.34 jdoliner I'm not sure if I should spend time to do that now
13:14.38 jdoliner or come back to it a bit later
13:26.10 ``Erik hm, C or tcl, C or tcl
13:26.45 Yoshi47 C?
13:27.30 ``Erik might have to write the algo in psuedocode before deciding, unless he can sucker brlcad into doing it "in a couple lines of tcl" :D
13:31.38 Axman6 Ada!
13:38.05 ``Erik "The GOTO is like a chainsaw. yes, some folks can actually make good things, and even make really nice carvings with a chainsaw. most just make a big fucking mess."
13:51.13 mafm lolcode ftw
13:53.08 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35716 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: More nmg->brep logic, still not functional...
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14:33.15 Yoshi47 Question: why do i have to reset my color scheme everytime i open mged? why does it save this preference? in the DB for the file your editing or globaly like /home/josh/.brlcad/config?
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15:10.18 ``Erik ~/.mgedrc
15:11.14 Yoshi47 umm
15:11.23 indianlarry under GUI File->Create/Update .mgedrc
15:11.46 brlcad ``Erik: which algo?
15:11.51 Yoshi47 indianlarry, thanks
15:11.58 indianlarry you bet
15:12.00 brlcad C ftw ;)
15:13.22 ``Erik wanna recreate the tree, with name mangling. when I see a region bit, I want to facetize into mangle;s/$/.bot/ and add that to the mangled region, with all mater and attr shtuff duped
15:14.46 ``Erik recfacetize 's/$/_f/' all.g -> all.g_r { tor.r_f { tor.r_f.bot } + cone.r_f { cone.r_f.bot } }
15:14.51 ``Erik 'r sumfin
15:15.52 ``Erik my current approach is destructive... facetize all and some external prep to kill/mv the bots in under the existing regions
15:16.56 ``Erik (and I already feel like I've thought too much, this is a yak shaving exercize to support something else)
15:17.02 ``Erik :D
15:17.26 brlcad what's the _f and _r above the region level mean?
15:17.53 ``Erik _f to denote facetized
15:18.29 ``Erik I want to create a second toplevel tree that mirrors the original except all regions contain exactly one bot
15:18.47 ``Erik the name mangling is arbitrary
15:19.09 mafm how's gsoc, did students pass?
15:19.48 ``Erik I think we need to wait for wrapup to say, mafm?
15:20.48 mafm aren't evaluations finished yet?
15:21.07 ``Erik they're all submitted now, but I think there's magic that has to happen on googles end
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15:53.01 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35717 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Start checking validity of components.
16:00.25 brlcad starseeker: jdoliner: did either of you figure out if there's a conversion to go from ON_Mesh to ON_Brep ?
16:01.27 brlcad if there is, nmgs may translate nearly 1-1 with an ON_Mesh
16:06.53 mafm oh, right
16:09.17 Yoshi47 umm whats the easiest way to make "608Z" in brlcad so i can groove that into the shield
16:29.03 *** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@32.139.175.39)
16:29.31 FAMULUS hello!
16:29.55 Yoshi47 hi
16:29.58 FAMULUS I've produced this beautiful part in BRL CAD
16:30.14 FAMULUS but having difficult getting it made from STL
16:30.19 FAMULUS overlapping trianges
16:30.20 FAMULUS http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/21/overlapping-triangles-in-stl/
16:30.40 FAMULUS looking for direction
16:30.41 FAMULUS http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/08/23/new-stl-for-superconducting-magrid/
16:32.06 FAMULUS even at higher resolution is still has overlapping triangles
16:33.17 Yoshi47 sorry i don't have enough knowledge to help you
16:33.33 louipc that's cool. what does it do?
16:34.09 brlcad hi FAMULUS
16:34.12 FAMULUS hi
16:34.14 louipc hmm bussard reactor
16:34.26 FAMULUS louipc: this will be the core of a nuclear fusion reactor
16:34.27 brlcad Yoshi47: the easiest way is probably an EBM
16:34.31 brlcad extruded bitmap
16:34.33 louipc OH JEEZ
16:34.42 louipc we have fusion technology now?
16:34.58 FAMULUS louipc: below breakeven yes
16:35.07 louipc aw
16:35.12 Yoshi47 brlcad, thats what i figured, guess i got to learn that process.
16:35.34 brlcad get out your favorite image editor, make a 1-bit image with 608Z in it to your liking, save as png, convert to bw with png-bw, create an ebm using that bw image
16:35.46 brlcad 'in' command will prompt you
16:35.53 brlcad i believe there is an ebm tutorial on the wiki
16:36.48 FAMULUS brlcad: looking into it
16:36.59 FAMULUS brlcad: what's the deal with g-stl anyway
16:37.43 Yoshi47 brlcad, thanks
16:37.51 brlcad other than it being an NP-hard problem? :)
16:38.10 FAMULUS brlcad: oh, it's like that
16:39.01 louipc iges conversion isn't any better eh?
16:39.47 brlcad FAMULUS: what mike suggested was what I was thinking as well
16:40.00 brlcad the fact that they are overlapping is pretty surprising though
16:40.10 brlcad does your model validate overlap-wise?
16:40.22 brlcad (rtcheck/gqa)
16:40.35 brlcad if it doesn't, it's a modeling error and you should fix that first
16:40.39 FAMULUS brlcad: seeing I don't know what that means exactly, probably not
16:40.57 brlcad there are tools/commands to check whether your model has overlaps
16:41.12 brlcad to perform a valid export with g-stl, there should be no overlaps
16:41.20 brlcad *before* the tessellation even begins
16:41.38 FAMULUS brlcad: I see, let me start here
16:41.43 brlcad you can get a quick idea by just running "rtcheck"
16:41.45 brlcad in mged
16:41.49 FAMULUS ok
16:42.21 brlcad the better way is via the gqa command or g_qa command-line tool, but that'll require a little setup first
16:42.55 brlcad if rtcheck reports no overlaps, try refining the grid (e.g., rtcheck -s2000)
16:43.02 FAMULUS _dirbuild(chassis) failure
16:45.56 FAMULUS he process has forked and you cannot use this CoreFoundation functionality safely. You MUST exec().
16:45.56 FAMULUS Break on __THE_PROCESS_HAS_FORKED_AND_YOU_CANNOT_USE_THIS_COREFOUNDATION_FUNCTIONALITY___YOU_MUST_EXEC__() to debug.
16:46.20 FAMULUS hmm, ive seen this before
16:46.23 brlcad yeah, that's a known 10.5 issue
16:46.29 brlcad fixed for most things, but not others
16:46.51 FAMULUS I think to get around this I have to issue command from terminal
16:49.08 brlcad yeah, that'll work
16:49.23 brlcad rtcheck your.g someobject
16:49.35 FAMULUS hmm, not this time
16:49.37 FAMULUS mged -c decawell.g rtcheck torus1
16:49.47 FAMULUS same error
16:49.54 FAMULUS bummer
16:49.57 brlcad right, don't run mged
16:50.12 brlcad it's one of the other 399 commands
16:50.21 brlcad rtcheck decawell.g torus1
16:50.36 brlcad if torus1 is a primitive, there will be no overlaps
16:50.45 brlcad overlaps have to do with defined region objects
16:50.59 FAMULUS right, but thats a sanity check
16:51.09 FAMULUS just trying to get the command to work
16:51.36 FAMULUS I'm on BRL-CAD Release 7.12.2
16:51.46 brlcad that's probably why you get the FORKED error
16:52.09 FAMULUS ok, I'll upgrade to 7.12.6
16:52.13 brlcad "probably" because I don't recall specifically testing rtcheck, but a bunch were quelled
16:52.23 brlcad you'll want 7.14.8
16:52.29 FAMULUS oh
16:52.31 FAMULUS thanks
16:52.57 FAMULUS good to see BRL under active development
16:53.11 brlcad or better, latest svn and just compile it ;)
16:53.19 brlcad you're on a mac, so you have everything you need
16:53.34 brlcad ~cadsvn
16:53.35 ibot To obtain BRL-CAD from Subversion: svn checkout https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad
16:53.58 FAMULUS brlcad: ok, I'll try.
16:54.15 brlcad cd brlcad && sh autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized --prefix=/usr/brlcad/dev-7.14.9 && make && sudo make install
16:54.21 brlcad that should do it
16:54.27 FAMULUS brlcad: trying....
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16:55.13 brlcad Yoshi47: you find the ebm overview?
16:55.27 Yoshi47 havebn't had time users nagging
16:55.40 brlcad okay, it's here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/EBM
16:55.45 Yoshi47 ok thanks
16:56.22 brlcad you'll want something bigger than 350x35 so there are minimized jaggies
17:00.17 FAMULUS brlcad: what's a good example of overlap in the context of BRL CAD
17:00.42 brlcad what do you mean?
17:01.14 brlcad overlap means you've defined two objects such that they're occupying the same space
17:01.54 FAMULUS brlcad: hmm, but that's ok when they are u together
17:02.13 brlcad two hammers criss-crossed would be an overlap on the middle region where they cross
17:02.38 FAMULUS but if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object you would be ok
17:02.50 brlcad and that would be because I defined the hammer, as an example, as having two regions -- one for the steel head and one region for the wooden handle
17:03.12 brlcad creating a region is the way that you denote an object physically occupies space
17:03.33 brlcad the difference between the shape of a hammer handle and an actual wooden hammer handle
17:03.51 FAMULUS right
17:03.56 brlcad and NO you would not be okay if you combined the 2 hammers into 1 comb object
17:04.03 brlcad that's exactly the problem
17:04.07 FAMULUS ah
17:04.08 FAMULUS comb chassis u solid.c - negative_form.c
17:04.20 FAMULUS I'm using only comb
17:04.32 brlcad now if you combined the shape of the two handles together and unioned them together *before* making a region .. you'd be okay
17:05.09 brlcad have you created any "regions"
17:05.21 FAMULUS brlcad: funny I stopped using regions because that was breaking STL export
17:05.43 FAMULUS http://prometheusfusionperfection.com/2009/05/30/brl-cad-stl-progress/
17:05.51 brlcad a region is one "object" and the stl file format only supports one object
17:05.59 brlcad so if you have multiple regions, you have multiple stl files or a problem
17:06.11 FAMULUS ok
17:06.30 brlcad you could combine it all together and make that combined thing be a region
17:06.46 FAMULUS ok
17:08.54 FAMULUS checking docs
17:14.58 ``Erik *burp*
17:24.20 FAMULUS brlcad: we'll I just successfully exported to STL with a region as the last object standing
17:33.01 FAMULUS brlcad: so you can make a region out of a compination, and make a combination out of a region?
17:49.36 ``Erik yes
17:49.50 ``Erik a region is actually just a combination with a flag set
17:50.47 ``Erik above the region level, things like "assembly" make it harder to shoot yourself in the foot, though
17:52.51 FAMULUS ``Erik: is there a difference between a region made up of combinations, and a region made up of regions
17:54.34 ``Erik it... depends, and having a region somewhere inside of a region kinda breaks the notion... (a region refers to a single physical homogenous material thing, something that exists irl)
17:55.49 ``Erik most things will walk down the tree and once they see the region bit, assume everything below is just 'the shape', so region information below the first is ignored
17:55.50 ``Erik (I think)
18:02.51 starseeker brlcad: I don't see any ON_Mesh to ON_Brep tools
18:03.08 starseeker would have been surprised given Rhino is a nurbs modeler :-)
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18:16.08 brlcad starseeker: could be something as simple as a copy constructor
18:16.37 brlcad i'd actually be surprised if they don't support it within rhino
18:16.49 brlcad easily one of the things they could have removed though
18:19.54 starseeker feels like he is getting close
18:20.04 starseeker famous last words, of course...
18:21.20 Yoshi47 who wants a bearing with a shield? although i can't figure out why my numbers don't render nicely...
18:23.24 ``Erik hm, my new bsd machine swings in just shy of 8k vgr's
18:24.18 ``Erik I'm sure my crusty old mac still trounces that :/ *waits*
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18:28.02 ``Erik oh yeah, the bsd machine gets 7946, the mac gets 22733
18:28.26 ``Erik too bad the mach shandler crud makes the unix tools soooo ssssllllooooowwwwww, can compile way faster on the bsd box
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18:35.36 Yoshi47 http://ej.nijenhuis.pixi.me/v/CAD/bearing_g.html here the finished bearing for now, unless i need to make changes, like the 608Z
18:49.04 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1608 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:49.39 brlcad FAMULUS: what erik said is spot on
18:49.52 brlcad a region in a region is a modeling error unless it's a region subtracted from a region
18:50.19 brlcad above the region level, and you have what we call "groups" and others call assemblies
18:50.35 brlcad at the region level, that's effectively a 'part'
18:50.43 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1609 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:50.45 brlcad below the region level is just a shape
18:51.42 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 0387.206.145.226 07http://brlcad.org * r1610 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: /* */
18:52.33 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:87.206.145.226]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
18:56.06 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 0383.24.64.144 07http://brlcad.org * r1611 10/wiki/User:526_buy_viagra: fix
19:02.38 FAMULUS brlcad: so far it seems to be working. maybe my problem was originally I had regions in regions
19:04.37 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35718 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: Checkpoint nmg_brep.cpp work.
19:40.16 ``Erik laptop weighs in at 6097 vgr's
19:48.04 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35719 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/bot/bot.c: fix type in casting
19:53.53 Ralith ``Erik: machs handler?
19:58.07 brlcad cool, nice to hear things work right when you feed it valid geometry
19:58.45 brlcad ``Erik: what is that?
19:58.56 brlcad slightly faster than this old MBP
19:59.22 brlcad here's yoshi's impeller render.. amazing. http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:01.44 ``Erik ralith: every system call on osX goes through the mach event handler, shandler()
20:02.06 Ralith seems odd
20:02.23 Ralith might make it really easy to implement a geordi though
20:02.27 Ralith brlcad: ooh, nice!
20:02.36 brlcad laforge?
20:02.46 Ralith brlcad: geordi of ##c++
20:03.24 Ralith C++ compiler IRC bot
20:03.24 ``Erik wow, look at all that aliasing O.o *duck*
20:03.24 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r35720 10/brlcad/trunk/src/ (19 files in 19 dirs): update info for "make depends"
20:03.26 louipc sweet render
20:03.33 brlcad that was H15 J3 .. but you have to downsample to get rid of all aliasing properly
20:03.56 Ralith it has to intercept all system calls from the compiler and executable to be able to function safely
20:04.13 Ralith brlcad: might be a bit easy to actually tell what's going on if it wasn't glass though >_>
20:04.18 ``Erik huh, the blades on the other side of it look like they have some pretty heavy aliasing vs the background
20:04.26 ``Erik *shrug*
20:04.57 brlcad yeah, edge pixels are accented because they don't blend the background like interior ones
20:05.25 brlcad probably should, dunno where that bit of code is
20:06.10 Ralith how long has yoshi been studying mged?
20:06.11 ``Erik ooh, I bet it's "miss" short-circuiting instead of passing back the background color
20:06.57 ``Erik so a black half or arb8 would get good blending
20:07.24 brlcad Ralith: that was his third day iirc
20:07.40 Ralith that's pretty impressive
20:07.52 brlcad did one model in three days, that model in a couple hours, redid the model that took him three days in an hour after he accidentally deleted it :)
20:07.56 Ralith shall keep this handy to wave at people who complain about accessibility
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20:13.08 brlcad Yoshi47: http://brlcad.org/tmp/impeller.png
20:13.20 brlcad i'll see if i can get a render later in metal :)
20:13.26 brlcad which reminds me..
20:16.09 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r35721 10/brlcad/trunk/TODO: how about adding a shiny metal shader so one doesn't have to make up the values every time.
20:16.23 Ralith Yoshi47: if you feel like it, I'd be pretty interested to read a walkthrough of how you modeled that.
20:16.43 Ralith observes that a variety of modeling walkthroughs might be a good way to introduce new users to mged
20:16.58 louipc it doesn't look so nice in mged
20:17.04 louipc it's just a mess-o-lines
20:17.57 louipc it'd be great to get a wireframe of the actual part edges
20:18.05 louipc Ralith: yeah for sure
20:20.17 brlcad louipc: yeah, were talking about that yesterday
20:20.31 brlcad the problem is that there aren't "actual part edges" when you model with implicits and CSG
20:21.42 brlcad as we become a fully hybrid representation system, we'll be able to derive/evaluate those edges .. that requires the NURBS work being complete (which is probably about 50% now after two years)
20:23.20 ``Erik louipc: facetize :D
20:23.55 ``Erik cribbing povrays huge honkin' library of .inc files might be useful for the 'shiney metal shader' notion
20:26.35 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r35722 10/brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_brep.cpp: well, at least that's a different nmg->brep invalidity error...
20:26.56 louipc hmm true
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21:00.12 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35723 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c:
21:00.12 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: Made the make-army command generate an army with variance in height.
21:00.12 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: Heights from 56 inches to 66 inches currently. Automatic with the -N# command.
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22:07.10 CIA-28 BRL-CAD: 03irpguardian * r35724 10/brlcad/trunk/src/libged/human.c: More tweaks to random army stuff.
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22:38.35 *** join/#brlcad BigAToo (n=BigAToo@pool-96-230-124-58.sbndin.btas.verizon.net)
23:04.20 *** join/#brlcad FAMULUS (n=mark@32.139.175.39)
23:34.21 *** join/#brlcad talcite (n=Matthew@206-223-179-178.beanfield.net)

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