IRC log for #brlcad on 20091107

00:23.37 *** join/#brlcad Cazax (n=Cazax@unaffiliated/cazax)
00:39.25 *** part/#brlcad Cazax (n=Cazax@unaffiliated/cazax)
01:14.50 R0b0t1 Hey, anyone there?
01:15.02 R0b0t1 I'm having problems compiling brlcad from source on my ubuntu
01:15.14 R0b0t1 It says libz.la doesn't exist...
01:15.24 R0b0t1 But it should be in the archived directory I unzipped.
01:26.06 ``Erik when you ran ./configure, did it say it was going to use the system zlib, or try to build it?
01:29.06 R0b0t1 ``Erik: It says "no: Using system"
01:29.18 R0b0t1 Although, it says a surprising number of things I have installed are missing
01:29.25 R0b0t1 For extra features, hm
01:35.58 ``Erik then libz.la shouldn't be looked for at all, it should do -lz to pick up the .so file O.o where does it break?
01:36.33 ``Erik http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/ if you want to paste teh chunk leading up to the error?
01:37.33 R0b0t1 http://pastebin.com/m5f5e4afd
01:37.44 R0b0t1 loves bzflag, but already had a pastebin window open
01:41.53 ``Erik bzflag.bz == brlcad.org :)
01:42.18 ``Erik just haven't coerced brlcad into making the paste.brlcad.org work yet... O.o
01:43.17 ``Erik hm, so the output at the end of configure said it was going to compile tcl and tk, but use the system libz and libpng?
01:43.42 ``Erik (and... 7.8.4? where did you get that?)
01:44.08 ``Erik and 7.12.2? something's seriously screwed up there heh
01:44.43 ``Erik it'd be best to grab 7.16.0 from sourceforge
01:46.41 R0b0t1 Hmm
01:46.49 R0b0t1 I thought I was getting the newest one, :P
01:49.24 ``Erik http://sf.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.16.0/
02:00.24 R0b0t1 Damn. That's a lot of warnings.
02:01.22 ``Erik ?
02:01.22 Maloeran Building stuff on Ubuntu is rather annoying, you have to install all these little "dev" packages just to get header files and static libraries
02:01.35 brlcad where is it in the compile? some portions arent ours to quell
02:01.44 ``Erik src/other specifically
02:03.06 Maloeran I really don't understand why the package maintainer felt they should provide separate "-dev" packages to allow actual compilation of software using the libraries
02:03.18 Maloeran The 5kb .h file was just too heavy? Ah gez
02:03.28 Maloeran package maintainers*
02:03.29 ``Erik heh
02:03.32 ``Erik pets fbsd O:-)
02:03.37 R0b0t1 Ewww
02:03.39 R0b0t1 Go gentoo.
02:03.49 R0b0t1 Oh, nothing is fatal yet. Just... lots of warnings... :P
02:05.20 Maloeran Gentoo is great, just don't ever try to do a major update once it's installed and running :)
02:05.47 ``Erik pets his fbsd boxen that do major updates without sweating it :)
02:07.08 Maloeran Yes, the Gentoo crowd kind of messed up the convenience of a software packaging system
02:07.54 ``Erik they made a halfassed attempt to copy the bsd one and ended up with typical linux quality... :> *duck*
02:07.57 Maloeran I don't want to have to modify obscure symlinks to update my "profile", or modify some files to force the system to install a package it decided I didn't want
02:08.52 ``Erik (no one fighting? darn.)
02:09.11 Maloeran "This package is masked!" .... "Now go figure out what that means and how to bypass my database, because I'm a stubborn packaging system and I don't care about what you think you need."
02:09.40 R0b0t1 Ello, new error: http://pastebin.com/m2a2e5ac3
02:10.04 R0b0t1 wat
02:10.16 R0b0t1 how is emerge --keep-going world obscure
02:10.26 Maloeran Sorry, 4 years of Gentoo have taken their toll on me
02:10.53 Maloeran --keep-going will not install a masked package
02:11.06 R0b0t1 Oh, well yeah.
02:11.10 ``Erik that error says that your xslt/libxml2 stuff is broken
02:11.41 ``Erik looks like a 64 vs 32 bit issue?
02:11.46 R0b0t1 Perhaps
02:11.48 R0b0t1 I am on 64bit
02:12.06 R0b0t1 And I borked my synaptic because someone turned my comp of while upgrading.
02:12.15 R0b0t1 Dunno if that's it, though.
02:12.20 R0b0t1 Anything you could think of I could try?
02:12.29 ``Erik http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=610789
02:12.55 R0b0t1 Wait, what
02:13.09 ``Erik https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libxml2/+bug/151045
02:14.23 ``Erik http://www.mail-archive.com/sage-devel@googlegroups.com/msg10281.html
02:14.30 ``Erik (amusingly, I went to school with jason grout)
02:15.08 Maloeran Apparently you got to remove some /usr/local/lib/libz* and reinstall
02:15.18 R0b0t1 has no /usr/local/lib
02:15.31 R0b0t1 Well, hmm
02:15.36 ``Erik it's a "your libz and libxml2 don't match up right" issue
02:15.36 R0b0t1 It says to remove older versions
02:15.53 Maloeran As it should be, Ubuntu doesn't install anything in /usr/local, some people may manually install stuff there and it generates library conflicts...
02:16.55 Maloeran Check what you got in LD_LIBRARY_PATH, for any strange path
02:17.15 R0b0t1 Looks normal
02:17.16 Maloeran Software installed from different sources may modify that path and install libraries in other locations
02:17.41 ``Erik mebbe try reinstalling libz and libxml2? *shrug*
02:17.43 R0b0t1 Ah, hm, I see a way to continue my upgrade from where it was terminated. I'll finish that and perhaps come back, I would assume that would fix it.
02:18.15 R0b0t1 Thanks for your help :). I think it's some deeper-level error though, not really easily fixable at all.
02:18.34 ``Erik really? on fbsd, it'd just be "portmanager -u -bu -l" and go have cookies
02:18.37 ``Erik :D *duck*
02:18.44 R0b0t1 Ta, off to install gentoo on my slimclient (with only usb ports and svideo... had to plug the SATA into another comp)
02:18.45 Maloeran Eh, doesn't sound like such a big error to me...
02:18.55 R0b0t1 Well, big as in, weird.
02:19.30 ``Erik isn't ther ean "emerge --do-everything-that-was-supposed-to-happen-but-didnt"? :)
02:19.39 R0b0t1 Yeah, or something like it.
02:19.49 R0b0t1 Well, but I mean, it doesn't really break anything completely.
02:20.00 ``Erik looks at the gentoo manpage at http://funroll-loops.info/
02:20.02 R0b0t1 But something you linked me to, ``Erik, gave me the solution.
02:20.18 ``Erik O:-)
02:21.12 Maloeran Gentoo is weird really. It tries to be very user-friendly in preventing you of doing "bad" stuff like installing packages it decided you didn't need... but it requires one to modify obscure symlinks and files at random occasions
02:21.56 Maloeran As if they only managed to get the bad part at trying to be user-friendly
02:22.54 R0b0t1 Meh
02:23.05 R0b0t1 There's times where everything needs a "shut up and listen" button.
02:23.20 R0b0t1 I've personally gotten REALLY tired of some software not listening :p
02:24.04 Maloeran Yes, I have developed a... special and strangely emotional relationship with Gentoo's emerge
02:24.09 Maloeran And it isn't going too well
02:29.22 starseeker brlcad: do I need to update the ChangeLog again?
02:29.45 R0b0t1 Haha!
02:29.47 R0b0t1 That fixed it.
02:29.57 R0b0t1 It was a relic causing trouble from my interrupted upgrade.
02:35.16 R0b0t1 Really quick question.
02:35.19 R0b0t1 How do I run brlcad.
02:35.59 ``Erik um, there're over 400 programs
02:36.05 ``Erik the one most people are looking for is "mged"
02:36.33 ``Erik http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
02:38.01 R0b0t1 Hmm
02:38.39 R0b0t1 Bummer, thought it'd have a GUI :p
02:38.42 R0b0t1 reads the docs
02:38.58 ``Erik mged is the "gui"
02:40.16 R0b0t1 I'd be calling it more of a CLI.
02:40.44 R0b0t1 Ruh-roh, unable to initialize gui
02:44.06 R0b0t1 ``Erik: Heh, got a few more minutes?
02:44.09 ``Erik ?
02:45.55 R0b0t1 mged starts with
02:45.55 R0b0t1 MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode.
02:45.55 R0b0t1 attach (nu|X|ogl)[nu]?
02:46.17 R0b0t1 :-\, and no matter which option I choose, only provides a CLI
02:47.11 ``Erik hrm, classic mode is a command line interface with a display window (X would be the one you want)
02:47.19 ``Erik if it's doing that, it means your tk isn't quite right
02:47.41 ``Erik perhaps try rebuilding BRL-CAD, this time using ./configure --enable-all --enable-optimized
02:47.43 R0b0t1 tk?
02:47.52 ``Erik yeah, tcl/tk is how the gui is done
02:47.53 R0b0t1 ok, then :)
02:48.44 starseeker Maloeran: I find once I get /etc/make.conf, /etc/package.mask, /etc/package.unmask, and /etc/package.use set properly it helps a lot
02:49.05 starseeker usually tossing something in one of those 4 files handles things
02:50.31 brlcad starseeker: nah, it's close enough
02:50.37 R0b0t1 http://pastebin.com/m51a51776
02:50.40 R0b0t1 Another error :0
02:50.57 brlcad hm, that'd be an interesting system to debug.. enough tk to link, but not configured properly to initialize
02:51.01 R0b0t1 But it's in other, I think I remember something about ignoring those :)
02:51.18 brlcad yeah, add --disable-jove
02:51.23 brlcad you don't want it anyways
02:51.37 R0b0t1 Hm, really?
02:51.42 brlcad that build issue is fixed in svn head
02:51.47 R0b0t1 Oh, I see.
02:52.22 R0b0t1 wonders what jove did anyway
02:52.29 ``Erik a really shitty old emacs clone
02:53.12 ``Erik I mean, uh, "jonathons own version of emacs"
02:54.55 R0b0t1 (XD)
02:55.09 R0b0t1 I ran the new ./config line, but I still have problems.
02:56.01 ``Erik bites his tongue O:-)
02:56.11 R0b0t1 ... the same problem
02:56.12 R0b0t1 :p
02:56.20 R0b0t1 I added disable-joves though
02:56.53 ``Erik --disable-jove, not --disable-joves... O.o
02:56.56 R0b0t1 It provides me no GUI
02:57.13 ``Erik ah, you mean it installed with --enable-all and still has the 'unable to initialize tk' error?
02:57.20 R0b0t1 I did it right on my ./configure, whooops.
02:57.27 brlcad you have to "make clean" after reconfiguring
02:57.29 R0b0t1 ``Erik: Yeah...
02:57.30 R0b0t1 Oh
02:57.31 R0b0t1 Heh
02:57.33 brlcad and then rebuild
02:57.56 starseeker glares at 3Dconnexion - how the heck can you "license" a device for professional use?
02:58.26 ``Erik sips the beer he licensed O.o
02:59.04 ``Erik (it's all good, I'll be done with it in a couple hours and delete my, uh, copy O.o)
02:59.22 starseeker SpaceNavigator is awesome, but that makes me very wary of them
02:59.45 ``Erik hrm, you weren't wary when you saw "a logitech company"? O:-)
03:00.10 starseeker I mean, increased support sure, but do they claim that you CAN'T use the device, even unsupported, for commercial activities?
03:00.27 R0b0t1 It's only cheating if you get caught.
03:00.43 ``Erik imagines it would be a very short court case
03:00.51 starseeker no kidding
03:01.15 starseeker I thought the rule with hardware was still "I bought it, it's mine now"
03:01.35 starseeker unless 3Dconnexion thinks they're "renting" the things...
03:02.00 starseeker https://3dconnexionstore.com/itemDetail.asp?itmNo=77826423N
03:02.12 starseeker "allows for commercial use..." WTF?
03:02.13 ``Erik they're a corporation, they're gonna keep pushing the limits until they get smacked down... I mean, just look at http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/11/06/1639252/Cable-Exec-Suggests-Changing-Consumer-Behavior-Not-Business-Model?art_pos=9&art_pos=9
03:02.47 starseeker wonders if they mean "allows" in the sense of "makes possible due to having proper support"
03:02.49 R0b0t1 The fuck
03:02.51 R0b0t1 That is weird.
03:03.22 ``Erik be amusing to throw that link on hn or something to see the geek riot
03:03.51 R0b0t1 The world needs more extremists... Because they're the only people who seem to get things done.
03:04.06 ``Erik heh
03:04.09 starseeker if they mean that in the "thou shalt not do anything commercial with this hardware without a proper license" my motivation to write up BRL-CAD support for it goes byebye
03:04.28 ``Erik send it to rms, he'll show up at logitech hq, steal the food off their plates and emit body odors :D *duck*
03:07.09 starseeker considers emailing 3D for clarification... wonder if they'd respond or not
03:07.49 starseeker yay, a working merge
03:07.54 starseeker now, one final distcheck
03:09.53 ``Erik http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=14566 heh
03:11.19 ``Erik zomfg O.O http://tinyurl.com/6d7xo4 I need one
03:11.50 starseeker ``Erik: heh - that first one could be a Despair poster
03:12.04 brlcad more than likely, commercial use just invalidates support, software driver updates, liability, .. you're on your own
03:12.17 ``Erik notes that starseeker hasn't poked around motivatedphotso much
03:12.43 starseeker brlcad: yeah, that's what I figured - they word it very badly though
03:13.00 brlcad more likely, just a way to milk a little more money because businesses will have to get the more expensive one
03:13.27 ``Erik still seems low trying to constrain use like that
03:20.23 starseeker brlcad: hmm - I doubt their SDK license is compatible - does that mean we're looking at reverse engineering it?
03:20.43 starseeker http://www.3dconnexion.com/support/4h.php
03:23.13 R0b0t1 *sigh*
03:23.30 R0b0t1 I still get "MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode."
03:23.34 R0b0t1 Anything else I could try?
03:23.50 brlcad ?ot
03:24.01 brlcad starseeker: it's not unlike the pro/e and unigraphics plugins
03:24.23 brlcad we're not redistributing the sdk
03:24.58 starseeker ah - so we don't have to have it present in BRL-CAD to make use of the device?
03:26.15 starseeker (since this device is available for <$100 even in the worst case, it would be nice to have everything needed to use it with BRL-CAD already in BRL-CAD...)
03:26.19 brlcad those terms would apply to the dev compiling and their use of the sdk -- our code remains ours
03:26.34 brlcad everything is pretty much already in brl-cad
03:27.02 brlcad there are bindings for those 6-dof already, at least event-wise
03:27.28 brlcad could even pass them through as key-bindings and use their simple gui control panel to emulate key stokes
03:28.57 brlcad R0b0t1: really? that's an a clean installed enable-all build?? find that hard to believe
03:29.14 brlcad unless you dont' have X running or something
03:29.25 R0b0t1 Hmm
03:29.27 R0b0t1 YEah.
03:29.34 R0b0t1 Pretty sure I have X running. :p
03:30.02 R0b0t1 brlcad: Yeah, it's all of what you said.
03:30.02 R0b0t1 :S
03:31.23 brlcad if you run fbhelp, what does it output?
03:31.32 brlcad and does it flash a window
03:31.53 brlcad er, display a window
03:32.13 brlcad pastebin the fbhelp output
03:32.21 brlcad ~bzpaste
03:32.22 ibot hmm... bzpaste is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/
03:32.25 brlcad there
03:32.32 brlcad (the .com sucks)
03:33.18 ``Erik *cough* make paste.brlcad.org work *cough* O:-)
03:33.42 brlcad somebody hear something?
03:33.48 brlcad hm, must have been the wind
03:33.50 ``Erik wonders if bwish would be a good trial
03:34.22 ``Erik ponders saving wind up all weekend for brlcad's office O.o nahhh, coudln't do that to d-lo
03:34.35 brlcad bwish was next .. wanted to see what was compiled first, and verify that X is working first
03:34.53 brlcad right, you totally could/would do that to d-lo
03:35.22 ``Erik ok, I couldn't do that to my hiney. O.o
03:35.53 R0b0t1 brlcad: Sorry
03:35.57 R0b0t1 And yes, a window appears.
03:36.29 R0b0t1 brlcad: http://pastebin.com/m4cbd8971
03:37.40 starseeker RObOt1: use pastebin.bzflag.bz
03:39.07 R0b0t1 http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m50e8a7f
03:40.24 brlcad hm, you enabled ogl
03:40.32 brlcad so next up, run bwish
03:40.48 ``Erik ogl shouldn't interfer with tk, though
03:40.52 brlcad does it display a window?
03:41.20 brlcad the embedded dm-ogl might be having trouble initializing if he's got a crap card/config/combo
03:43.18 R0b0t1 Aha
03:43.22 R0b0t1 I might have to install tcl
03:43.39 brlcad heh, I asked if you installed :)
03:43.48 R0b0t1 Hmm
03:43.52 R0b0t1 It is installed, as I thought.
03:44.18 brlcad are you running the installed binary or the in-dir compiled binary?
03:44.27 R0b0t1 Says something about not finding ./tcl8.5.1/library/init.tcl
03:44.32 R0b0t1 installed
03:45.20 starseeker that's not the version we have in any recent tarball
03:45.50 brlcad yeah, that's not ours
03:45.51 R0b0t1 Eh
03:45.55 starseeker maybe a distclean + ./configure --enable-all ?
03:46.40 brlcad or even starting over with a fresh checkout/download and build/install
03:46.44 R0b0t1 No rule to make distclean?
03:46.50 brlcad sounds like you got something stale
03:47.06 starseeker R0b0t1: unless brlcad tells you different, give this a go from your top level brlcad directory: make distclean && ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-all && make
03:47.30 starseeker then (as root unless you have other permissions set up for /usr/brlcad) make install
03:48.07 R0b0t1 make[1]: *** No rule to make target distclean. stop.
03:48.13 starseeker blinks
03:48.19 starseeker what directory are you in?
03:48.32 R0b0t1 brlcad-7.16.0, where I unziped the tarball.
03:49.15 starseeker um. ok, just blow away the old directory and re-unzip the tarball
03:49.16 brlcad is that where you compiled?
03:49.48 brlcad you did something wrong or you're in the wrong dir or you already ran a partial/full distclean before
03:56.08 R0b0t1 Well, I re-untar'd, doing everything but the make distclean
03:59.21 starseeker how's it going?
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04:02.25 R0b0t1 starseeker: Chugging along...
04:06.23 R0b0t1 Oh, docbooks, almost done
04:08.53 R0b0t1 starseeker: brlcad: Still the same error.
04:10.37 R0b0t1 I mean, no GUI.
04:10.42 starseeker after a make install
04:10.45 R0b0t1 yes
04:10.54 starseeker /usr/brlcad/bin/mged ?
04:11.17 R0b0t1 ...
04:11.19 R0b0t1 Hmm
04:11.26 R0b0t1 That's really odd. Because that works.
04:11.40 starseeker do "which mged"
04:11.52 starseeker without the quotes
04:12.05 R0b0t1 /bin/mget
04:12.07 R0b0t1 aha
04:12.15 starseeker bingo
04:12.49 R0b0t1 I put the brlcad before the others.
04:12.51 R0b0t1 Now it works :)
04:13.06 starseeker cool - have fun :-)
04:14.11 R0b0t1 One quick thing -- how do I make a database?
04:14.18 R0b0t1 Swear that's my last question.
04:15.10 starseeker File->New... in mged will work
04:15.34 R0b0t1 Yeah, I was doing that, but it fails with "no database is currently opened
04:15.45 starseeker or if you supply a nonexisting name to mged as a command line argument, it will ask if you want to create it
04:15.49 starseeker e.g. mged test.g
04:16.13 starseeker oh, was it now...
04:16.20 starseeker checks
04:16.51 starseeker hmm, works in latest svn
04:17.09 R0b0t1 Oh, there we go.
04:17.11 R0b0t1 Now it works.
04:17.14 R0b0t1 Ok, thanks :)
04:17.23 R0b0t1 starts playing with his brlcad and goes lurking
04:18.34 CIA-37 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r36451 10/brlcad/trunk/ (NEWS TODO src/util/Makefile.am src/util/pix-ppm.1): added a man page for the pix-ppm command
04:19.47 starseeker wonders if anyone has ever used a SpaceNavigator to play quake ;-)
04:24.07 yukonbob R0b0t1: enjoy!!!!!1
04:31.39 CIA-37 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r36452 10/brlcad/branches/STABLE/ (1295 files in 115 dirs): merge trunk to STABLE from r36077 to HEAD r36450
04:31.51 brlcad hah, down to the wire.. nice!
04:32.01 brlcad ~starseeker++
04:32.12 yukonbob this going to be a point-release?
04:32.51 brlcad they're all point-something :)
04:32.57 starseeker retreats for some sleep (die evil cold germs, die...)
04:33.04 yukonbob :P pbfffffft
04:33.16 brlcad starseeker: catch some rest this weekend finally/hopefully :)
04:33.19 brlcad nice work
04:33.29 starseeker thanks - you too!
04:33.31 brlcad merge went a lot easier with those instructions?
04:33.36 starseeker FAR easier
04:33.41 brlcad great
04:34.07 starseeker should send that to the subversion guys to add into their standard docs
04:34.12 brlcad heh
04:34.26 starseeker will probably reappear in ~20 hours or so
04:34.36 brlcad the bad part is needing to manually keep track of your last merge point
04:34.43 brlcad it should figure that part out
04:35.23 brlcad understandable why it works the way it does, but from a usability standpoint, it can definitely be improved without breaking the philosophy
04:36.32 yukonbob was shocked other day when somebody mentioned Tcl 8.5.0 came out ~2 years ago... which is ~ when I lost a grip on building brlcad on my machine -- now I only relive the glory days of spinning wireframes in my memory...
04:36.58 yukonbob soon, I'll get it up/running again.
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