| 00:46.10 | starseeker | Nohla: hola! |
| 01:50.20 | starseeker | is impressed - apparently the clang folks are making progress with C++ support |
| 01:51.47 | starseeker | erm |
| 01:51.49 | starseeker | ../../../brlcad/src/librt/prep.c:1533:8: warning: using extended field designator is an extension [-pedantic] stp = BU_LIST_MAIN_PTR(soltab, mid, l2); |
| 01:57.18 | starseeker | reflects that compiling the latest svn clang seems to have its drawbacks - looks like their error catching is either foobarred or more agressive/correct |
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| 02:52.38 | starseeker | completes a strange hybrid of clang and gcc compiled BRL-CAD |
| 02:53.51 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r38052 10/brlcad/trunk/src/rttherm/pixtest.c: Clang wants this to be **av, not *av - doesn't seem be be used in any case, so change it. |
| 02:56.25 | starseeker | so the problem children are (obviously) the C++ stuff, liboptical, conv/dem-g.c, and rt |
| 03:02.21 | starseeker | ``Erik: I remember discussing the liboptical thing with Sean - it sounded like one of those "it'd be simple if it wasn't me doing it" kind of things |
| 03:17.10 | starseeker | rt appears to have the same type of issue |
| 03:48.13 | *** join/#brlcad Nohla (~jesica@190.177.141.92) | |
| 04:02.10 | starseeker | notes the __INTEL_COMPILER conditional in bu_byteoffset's definition, but so far cant' find anything similar defined by CLANG |
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| 11:44.23 | ``Erik | what exactly is(are) the issue(s) in those? |
| 11:48.59 | Ralith | ooh, porting to clang? |
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| 14:33.54 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38053 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/ (11 files in 3 dirs): Added images for framebuffer and raytrace toolbar buttons. I obtained the images from Cliff. |
| 14:34.47 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38054 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/ (4 files): Added images for framebuffer and raytrace toolbar buttons. I obtained the images from Cliff. |
| 14:40.37 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38055 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/RtControl.tcl: Made the following methods public: raytrace, abort and clear. Added the raytracePlus and toggleFB methods. |
| 14:42.28 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38056 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/Archer.tcl: Added toolbar buttons for the framebuffer and raytracing. |
| 16:08.18 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@193.153.52.54) | |
| 16:09.23 | mafm | hi there |
| 17:59.35 | *** join/#brlcad Rou (~863c69c6@gateway/web/freenode/x-lcnchholudmniygu) | |
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| 18:19.12 | Rou | 'svn co https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad' keeps getting stuck at different points. Is there something wrong ? |
| 18:28.47 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@193.153.52.54) | |
| 18:33.32 | Rou | I am behind a proxy, but other checkouts seem to be working |
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| 18:44.55 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38057 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl: Added the -adcEnable option. |
| 18:47.30 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r38058 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/ (framebuffer_clear.png framebuffer_off.png): Rename the original clear icon to 'framebuffer_off', and adding a new 'framebuffer_clear' image. |
| 18:48.45 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03bob1961 * r38059 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ (Archer.tcl ArcherCore.tcl): Added support for an angle/distance cursor menu item. Also stubbed in and ADC preferences tab. |
| 19:11.13 | CIA-85 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r38060 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/images/Themes/Crystal_Large/ (4 files): Add icons for underlay, interlay and overlay framebuffer states. |
| 19:34.21 | brlcad | starseeker: http://www.cis.rl.ac.uk/publications/cookbook/chap3.html is a simple starting point to just write something basic (tcl editor topic) |
| 19:35.19 | starseeker | brlcad: cool :-) |
| 19:35.22 | starseeker | thanks |
| 19:35.23 | brlcad | jove is already disabled by default and in the deprecation file .. give it a rest .. as soon as the deprecation criteria are fulfilled, it can be removed |
| 19:35.29 | starseeker | hehe |
| 19:35.37 | starseeker | no problem |
| 19:36.04 | starseeker | how goes the vacation? |
| 19:37.51 | brlcad | louipc: it's not quite the same regarding bundline an editor -- it's more like if "view source" sent out to a console in a web browser (it doesn't, it displays in an app window) |
| 19:38.48 | brlcad | or more apropriately, an "edit source" option in a web browser -- maybe an option to use my own editor, but I'd expect it to be an app window |
| 19:44.17 | brlcad | vacation going/went well |
| 19:44.26 | brlcad | just getting back on top of the communication pile |
| 19:45.42 | brlcad | that non-static initializer did look like a compiler decl missing in the offsetof's for that compiler |
| 19:46.39 | brlcad | they are constants from a macro |
| 19:46.53 | brlcad | crit should be nowhere near full...... |
| 19:50.59 | brlcad | louipc: there is also no such thing as a "standard system editor" for pretty much any platform .. some window managers and platforms have a conventionally common one, but still nothing so far as a "standard" one, and regardless, console-only runtime is a fundamental requirement in my book in addition to "just works" |
| 19:55.01 | brlcad | this is all more to the point of what to do for those that don't set EDITOR when a) you're in a console session and b) you're in a graphical session |
| 19:56.22 | brlcad | I'd argue that kicking off a GUI editor while in a console session is unexepcted behavior, and vice-versa though to a lesser extent if you pop up a separate console window for it |
| 19:57.47 | brlcad | everything else we already take care of (EDITOR is set, or common available graphical editor on a known graphical platform, or common available console editor when in console mode) |
| 20:06.56 | brlcad | starseeker: http://alphatcl.sourceforge.net/wiki/ BSD-licensed |
| 20:10.34 | starseeker | ok, so the AlphaTcl logic is the backend, and the editor itself AquaTk is shareware |
| 20:10.42 | starseeker | hmm, that's an interesting setup |
| 20:12.30 | starseeker | will leave the editor stuff alone - sorry to irritate |
| 20:12.32 | brlcad | from the read of it, it's pretty comprehensive "backend" |
| 20:12.47 | brlcad | not irriatating, needs to be addressed |
| 20:13.16 | brlcad | just didn't want to leave misconceptions/motivations I was reading in the backlog |
| 20:13.20 | starseeker | jove I mean - I'll stop making fun of it |
| 20:13.38 | starseeker | must concede it has done its job well |
| 20:13.39 | brlcad | it's ripe to be made fun of |
| 20:13.51 | brlcad | my comment wasn't to you |
| 20:13.57 | starseeker | ah, k |
| 20:14.31 | starseeker | good catch on alphatcl - I saw the shareware link and crossed it off |
| 20:14.32 | starseeker | whoops |
| 20:14.39 | brlcad | it's kicking a dead horse, complaining that it was a bad horse, when the collection crew has already been called to make sausage of it |
| 20:15.28 | brlcad | kinda freaky that alphatcl is 170k of code, but impressive that it's all BSD .. more a matter of how pluggable is it to wrap it in a window or console |
| 20:15.57 | starseeker | downloads to explore... |
| 20:16.05 | louipc | well.. I think the editor is more like mailto: in a web browser ;) |
| 20:16.47 | louipc | if it were like 'view source' that would be easy |
| 20:16.59 | brlcad | it is like view source |
| 20:17.10 | louipc | just print it out in a window, or on the console |
| 20:17.22 | louipc | you don't need any editing capability or anything then |
| 20:17.26 | brlcad | an editable view source |
| 20:17.43 | louipc | mailto would be a better analogy I thinks |
| 20:19.01 | louipc | but I guess neither of them really work properly |
| 20:19.18 | starseeker | O.o 6.5 megs compressed for the tarball |
| 20:19.31 | brlcad | even with that analogy (which is poor at best for the way we use "text edit"), that's a URL construct that the browser is written to support -- the browser has a means to configure that and there is a system-provided concept of sending mail |
| 20:19.57 | louipc | you're not editing a web page via mail, and you can't edit it via view source |
| 20:20.02 | starseeker | this would be a doozy to include as is - hope the functionality is well subdivided |
| 20:20.16 | brlcad | there is no system-provided concept of editing like there is for sending mail, beyond EDITOR for unix-style systems |
| 20:21.37 | starseeker | 9 megs uncompressed for just the Tcl subdir. Wowza |
| 20:21.40 | louipc | you still need an mail client - that's what needs to be launched |
| 20:21.41 | brlcad | the whole reason we provide text editing at all is as a cheap work-around for allowing easy batch editing of geometry values |
| 20:22.32 | brlcad | louipc: sure you need a mail client, and as mail is a system construct, there is one always available |
| 20:22.41 | brlcad | the same is not necessarily true for editing |
| 20:23.04 | louipc | maybe I don't know many systems well then |
| 20:23.05 | brlcad | it's also still the browser's job to provision it |
| 20:23.18 | louipc | notepad is standard on windows as far as I know |
| 20:23.19 | brlcad | e.g., use the system-defined mailer or allow a user override |
| 20:23.26 | louipc | vi is required by POSIX |
| 20:23.27 | brlcad | it's not standard |
| 20:23.29 | brlcad | it's just common |
| 20:23.32 | louipc | that's two |
| 20:23.35 | brlcad | there's also wordpad, for example |
| 20:23.46 | louipc | and there's 'edit' |
| 20:24.14 | louipc | notepad is standard enough though |
| 20:24.30 | brlcad | you keep using that word |
| 20:24.36 | brlcad | I don't think it means what you think it means :0 |
| 20:24.46 | starseeker | common != standard |
| 20:25.47 | louipc | what dictionary should I be learning from? |
| 20:25.57 | brlcad | paramount to saying IE is "standard", it's not .. it's just common (and a default system-provided url responder on windows at that) |
| 20:26.37 | louipc | it's not an explicitly defined windows computing standard or something |
| 20:27.11 | louipc | but yeah it's like saying IE is standard fare on a windows system |
| 20:27.31 | brlcad | which is wrong :) |
| 20:27.42 | louipc | if someone has an exotic setup they probably know what they're doing |
| 20:28.01 | louipc | and know to deal with issues |
| 20:28.17 | louipc | I don't think it's wrong |
| 20:28.48 | brlcad | that's okay, everyone is entitled to be wrong ;) |
| 20:29.03 | louipc | it may not be nailed down by any explicit definition |
| 20:29.14 | louipc | but defacto standard is near enough standard to count |
| 20:30.32 | louipc | please go to the computer shop and find me a windows system without notepad |
| 20:31.00 | louipc | then you can say it's wrong |
| 20:31.01 | brlcad | you are totally missing the point I believe |
| 20:31.08 | brlcad | it can be common |
| 20:31.19 | brlcad | it IS common, prevalent, pervasive |
| 20:31.28 | brlcad | no argument there whatsoever |
| 20:31.32 | louipc | good enough ;) |
| 20:31.39 | brlcad | that, however, does not make something "standard" |
| 20:31.55 | brlcad | that is the difference between those words in the first place |
| 20:32.09 | brlcad | regardless, we've fully diverged from the original point anyways |
| 20:32.34 | brlcad | it's a matter for places where there is NOT an identifiable editor available |
| 20:32.55 | louipc | It doesn't need to be decreed by the Gods to be considered standard in my view. That's all I mean. |
| 20:33.02 | brlcad | windows has a common one we can check for, great .. if EDITOR is set, great ... |
| 20:33.15 | brlcad | those aren't the environments of concern (at all) |
| 20:33.51 | brlcad | jove wasn't ever originally provided to replace either of those, for example |
| 20:34.28 | brlcad | it was for systems where 'ed' (or nothing) was the only alternative |
| 20:34.55 | louipc | oh non posix? |
| 20:35.21 | brlcad | if we're to be embarrasingly portable, which has always been a project goal .. it's a minor consideration that has to be accounted for |
| 20:35.49 | brlcad | jove was provided WAY before POSIX ever came into existance |
| 20:37.12 | louipc | Are there any machines from that era that can even run a current brl-cad? |
| 20:38.18 | brlcad | I don't know of any major complications or limiations that prohibit BRL-CAD from working there |
| 20:39.20 | brlcad | still, even consider a platform that not common (not standard? *cough*) .. and the issue is still there, a non-*nix-non-windows system for example |
| 20:40.34 | starseeker | if someone were to try to get things running on (say) Plan9, we'd like there to be some chance of success |
| 20:40.48 | brlcad | if all we cared about was supporting what was common or popular, BRL-CAD could have become irrecoverably out-of-date a long time ago |
| 20:41.08 | brlcad | plan9 is a good example, haiku another, qnx perhaps another |
| 20:41.13 | louipc | why out of date? |
| 20:41.51 | starseeker | over time scales like 20/30/40 years, major assumptions about computer operating systems and environments are fluid |
| 20:41.59 | brlcad | what was popular when BRL-CAD started doesn't even really exist today |
| 20:42.47 | louipc | oh I assumed you'd switch gears as new systems became popular |
| 20:42.50 | brlcad | fundamentally different process and threading models, ways of managing memory |
| 20:43.11 | louipc | thus you would have changed into more windows oriented |
| 20:43.51 | starseeker | the trick is interface consistency is very, very important in a productivity application like BRL-CAD |
| 20:44.19 | starseeker | people spend years learning to use it, so they want the environment they learned even if the OS changes out from under them |
| 20:44.22 | brlcad | we do change with the times, we taking more about not coding in *assumptions* |
| 20:44.46 | brlcad | old code for dying systems does get removed slowly with time, new code is written as flexibly as possible |
| 20:46.24 | brlcad | thinks the point is still lost -- we're just talking about making sure we have a basic text editor we can kick off if someone says they want to text edit something |
| 20:46.32 | starseeker | nods |
| 20:46.33 | louipc | so as far as I can tell, you said that the editor is only needed to make things more convenient |
| 20:46.36 | brlcad | you're basically saying "don't worry about it, everyone has an editor" |
| 20:46.41 | louipc | not really necessary right? |
| 20:46.53 | louipc | like X |
| 20:47.05 | brlcad | i'm saying we want to be sure even if someone doesn't (for whatever reason) |
| 20:47.14 | starseeker | IIRC, there was a time when BRL-CAD actually did bundle X |
| 20:47.31 | brlcad | mm, I'm not so sure about that starseeker |
| 20:48.03 | starseeker | could be wrong, thought I remembered seeing something in some VERY old doc... |
| 20:48.17 | starseeker | may have been just a discussion as to why it wasn't included |
| 20:49.39 | brlcad | it would have had to be pre 4.4 (circa 1988), and it was never in cvs/rcs afaik |
| 20:50.30 | louipc | brlcad you said: the whole reason we provide text editing at all is as a cheap work-around for allowing easy batch editing of geometry values |
| 20:52.04 | brlcad | yes? |
| 20:52.25 | louipc | are there other ways to do that? |
| 20:52.28 | brlcad | there are a series of commands that amount to "let me edit these things in text form" |
| 20:52.46 | louipc | yeah i've used it |
| 20:52.58 | louipc | is it really required functionality? |
| 20:53.06 | louipc | the text editing of objects |
| 20:53.12 | brlcad | from a productivity standpoint, yes |
| 20:53.29 | Rou | sorry to intrude, but |
| 20:53.31 | brlcad | those are very heavily used features in production use |
| 20:53.32 | Rou | 'svn co https://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad' keeps getting stuck at different points. Is there something wrong ? |
| 20:53.52 | brlcad | Rou: not that I'm aware of -- stuck how? |
| 20:53.58 | louipc | Rou: I think your issue can trump the debate :D |
| 20:53.58 | Rou | sometimes it gives the timeout error, but many times not |
| 20:54.16 | Rou | I left it overnight hoping it would work on the Xth try |
| 20:54.22 | brlcad | sounds like you have a router that is resetting the connection |
| 20:54.33 | Rou | yes, I am using a proxy |
| 20:54.44 | Rou | but I managed to checkout Wine this morning |
| 20:54.44 | louipc | how about if you go direct? |
| 20:54.46 | brlcad | Rou: instead of restarting the checkout, try just doing an "svn up" in the brlcad directory |
| 20:54.50 | brlcad | that should pick up where it left off |
| 20:55.29 | Rou | thanks for that. On my latest tries it doesn't give the timeout anymore, it just hangs there till I kill the process |
| 20:55.49 | Rou | and then I can't co or run svn cleanup |
| 20:56.20 | Rou | unfortunately, the router is my University connection |
| 20:56.22 | Rou | can't go past it |
| 20:57.02 | louipc | ah |
| 20:59.23 | Rou | I'll try to disconnect and try svn up |
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| 22:06.51 | brlcad | starseeker: if alphatcl turns out to be too complicated or isn't working right, I did ask the tpad author if he's willing to relicense as LGPL -- and he said okay, so another option |
| 22:08.01 | starseeker | brlcad: sweet - thanks! |
| 22:09.54 | starseeker | brlcad: if I'm understanding alphatcl right, we essentially need to create an editor into which the alphatcl functionality is "plugged" |
| 22:14.18 | starseeker | bemusedly wonders if we can supply as an option jove keybindings for a tcl/tk based editor... |
| 22:24.56 | ``Erik | I don't think we ever bundled X |
| 22:25.06 | starseeker | nods - I wasn't sure |
| 22:25.46 | starseeker | just a vague memory of something related to the topic - thought it was justification for removing it but I could very easily have remembered or seen it wrong |
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