| 01:05.29 | *** join/#brlcad salvarane (~salvarane@93-41-130-162.ip81.fastwebnet.it) | |
| 01:05.52 | salvarane | hello |
| 01:59.41 | *** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (~stevegt@c-69-181-134-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 04:57.17 | juub | hmm, I've spent far too much time away from brl-cad. |
| 04:57.35 | juub | Does the current gui implementation make any use of GLUT? |
| 04:58.10 | juub | I've begun reading my "OpenGL Programming for the X Window System", and GLUT seems pretty helpful for cross-platforming. |
| 05:09.46 | starseeker | juub: as of now, I beleve the answer is no |
| 05:10.35 | starseeker | (we're currently trying to get the Togl widget to serve in support of a cross-platform display manager |
| 05:15.13 | juub | never heard of Togl. I'll ask google. |
| 05:15.28 | juub | Any reasons, in particular, for not using GLUT? |
| 05:15.49 | starseeker | shrugs. Our GL code predates even OpenGL itself |
| 05:15.56 | juub | sweet |
| 05:15.59 | juub | ^_^ |
| 05:16.02 | juub | any plans on updating it? |
| 05:16.34 | starseeker | that gets wrapped up in a whole slew of user interface design issues |
| 05:16.40 | juub | nods |
| 05:16.46 | juub | Rendering issues too, I imagine. |
| 05:16.52 | starseeker | the hope is togl can do what we do now cross-platform |
| 05:17.01 | juub | I see |
| 05:17.05 | starseeker | (and providing us nice Tk window wrappers) |
| 05:17.36 | starseeker | but so far I'm having a time of it getting things to behave - as with most things Tcl/Tk, coming at it from the C side is a pain |
| 05:18.09 | juub | So I've seen you mention. What are the options if it doesn't pan out? |
| 05:20.27 | starseeker | refactoring our existing wgl and ogl display managers to share common code and isolate the initialization/platform specific stuff, and add agl support (Apple) |
| 05:21.13 | juub | wgl being Windows' OpenGL variant? I'm not very experienced with graphics programming. |
| 05:21.14 | starseeker | that's the "least impact" approach, but requires the most mucking with the guts of AGL |
| 05:21.17 | starseeker | yes |
| 05:21.47 | starseeker | WGL == Windows OpenGL, ogl is our X11 GLX based OpenGL dm, and AGL is Apple's OpenGL |
| 05:22.01 | juub | This sounds like GLUT would be a prime candidate for, but there are probably issues I'm wholly unaware of. |
| 05:22.08 | starseeker | we're trying to get things working with native Aqua Tcl/Tk, so we don't need X11 on the mac |
| 05:22.31 | starseeker | actually, we probably don't need GLUT for what we do now |
| 05:22.41 | starseeker | (ogl and wgl don't use it, as far as I know) |
| 05:23.14 | juub | Right, my understanding of GLUT is that it serves as an abstraction layer over ogl, wgl, agl. |
| 05:23.24 | starseeker | the other approach is to go "all in" and use something like Ogre3D |
| 05:23.41 | juub | that sounds like it would be tough too. |
| 05:24.46 | starseeker | it would be some work, but would position us to translate to a "next generation" graphical display/environment |
| 05:25.23 | juub | Well, I'm very interested in the route you take. There's another FOSS project that is using tcl/tk, which is migrating away from it, and it is of great interest to see the different approaches taken: micropolis, if you're interested. |
| 05:26.24 | starseeker | there was some google summer of code work on getting Ogre and Qt to play together |
| 05:26.40 | starseeker | but that's definitely longer term |
| 05:26.47 | juub | hmm, I'm looking at the Togl page, and it says it has a C API. Is it not sufficient? |
| 05:26.56 | starseeker | in theory |
| 05:27.10 | starseeker | but notice there isn't a C way to create a togl instance |
| 05:27.53 | starseeker | which means having to Tcl_Eval a Tcl/tk togl command |
| 05:28.07 | juub | hmm. Meaning the API is for calling C code from togl (tcl/tk), but not the other way around? |
| 05:28.18 | starseeker | The font functions aren't portable to AGL (just for more fun) |
| 05:28.30 | juub | aw, reading is over rated ;) |
| 05:28.44 | juub | IRC be damned |
| 05:29.01 | starseeker | juub: I have a feeling the intent of the C api is to help people writing Tcl/Tk functions in C (we do some of that in src/adrt) |
| 05:29.02 | juub | everything needs to be idiot proof icons these days |
| 05:29.30 | juub | hmm, interesting |
| 05:29.38 | starseeker | but our libdm code does EVERYTHING in C - window creation, setup, make visible... |
| 05:29.59 | starseeker | and for some reason I can't get use the mouse to move anything... |
| 05:30.07 | juub | I'm not familiar with dm in the least. |
| 05:30.15 | starseeker | code is in src/libdm |
| 05:30.39 | starseeker | pretty much one file to a display manager for the core code, and a lot of scattered ifdef stuff |
| 05:31.05 | starseeker | the togl stuff is in a branch right now so I don't bust up the main tree |
| 05:31.27 | starseeker | it's far enough along so that I can see some stuff, but Tk's key bindings apparently hate me |
| 05:32.10 | juub | it sucks being loathed by an inanimate code base :( |
| 05:32.43 | starseeker | and worst case scenario I'll have to bring in FTGL to get text in AGL... |
| 05:32.55 | juub | hmm, I could have sworn I checked out the brl-cad source a while ago... which SCM does it use? |
| 05:33.02 | starseeker | subversion |
| 05:33.05 | juub | hmm |
| 05:33.13 | starseeker | ~svn |
| 05:33.14 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
| 05:33.24 | juub | odd, I don't have it in my svn directory... |
| 05:33.42 | juub | maybe I grabbed the code in my sleep :/ |
| 05:33.48 | starseeker | heh |
| 05:33.58 | juub | not even in the snapshot directory... |
| 05:34.03 | starseeker | juub: if you want to wade into the libdm code you're welcome, but beware |
| 05:34.31 | juub | Yeah, I don't think I'll tread in there until I've finished the green book (aforementioned OpenGL X Window System Programming). |
| 05:34.47 | juub | All I'd likely accomplish is confusing myself, and breaking things. |
| 05:34.47 | starseeker | I'm working with it because I need too, not because it's a fun place to code ;-) |
| 05:34.53 | juub | :) |
| 05:35.04 | starseeker | the fun comes after it's working properly |
| 05:35.10 | juub | Yeah |
| 05:37.37 | juub | (that micropolis project is the old school SimCIty, btw) |
| 05:37.57 | starseeker | cool - thought I remembered that |
| 05:38.03 | juub | It probably has a much simpler Tcl/Tk binding that might provide a simpler entry point with ToGL... and you'll get to play SimCity while testing ^_^ |
| 05:38.19 | starseeker | they're not the first to migrate off of Tcl/Tk... |
| 05:38.25 | juub | I couldn't get it to compile due to a yacc/bison conflict, so I gave up =D |
| 05:38.31 | starseeker | juub: I may study more closely how Ayam does things |
| 05:38.48 | juub | Not familiar with Ayam either, I belive I've seen you mention it several times before. |
| 05:38.54 | starseeker | http://ayam.sourceforge.net/ |
| 05:38.58 | juub | yup, already there |
| 05:39.09 | juub | spiffy logo |
| 05:39.29 | juub | ah yes, I vaguely remember looking at this before. |
| 05:40.38 | starseeker | it would probably be simpler to figure out roughly how they do what they do and then do something similar in the new Archer GUI, but that would leave old MGED out in the cold |
| 05:40.52 | juub | how come? |
| 05:41.02 | juub | What's the archer gui? |
| 05:41.16 | starseeker | reworking MGED to not use libdm/libfb would be a job |
| 05:41.25 | juub | I see |
| 05:41.33 | juub | libfb == frame buffer library? |
| 05:41.38 | starseeker | Archer is our prototype GUI where the work on the next generation MGED interface is going on |
| 05:41.41 | starseeker | yes |
| 05:41.46 | juub | Ah, I see. |
| 05:41.56 | starseeker | let me see if I have a good screenshot handy... |
| 05:43.27 | juub | how large is the brl-cad repository tree? |
| 05:43.38 | juub | Yikes, I'm down to 600MB free on /home |
| 05:45.01 | starseeker | uh, what did you check out? |
| 05:45.05 | starseeker | you don't want root |
| 05:45.08 | starseeker | do this: |
| 05:45.11 | juub | I haven't checked out anything. |
| 05:45.22 | starseeker | svn co https://brlcad.svn.sf.net/svnroot/brlcad/brlcad/trunk brlcad |
| 05:45.42 | starseeker | few hundred megs maybe? haven't checked lately |
| 05:45.43 | juub | I was wondering what the disk usage would be of the repository beforehand since I'm so low in /home |
| 05:45.46 | juub | nods |
| 06:06.39 | starseeker | juub: here's the current state of Archer: http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/archer_latest.png |
| 06:16.33 | starseeker | check ogl on gentoo and reluctantly concludes he has majorly messed up in dm-togl somewhere |
| 06:18.31 | starseeker | maybe glut would be a possiblity, dunno |
| 06:18.35 | juub | points, "I know that truck!" |
| 06:18.57 | juub | well that archer stuff is lookin' good. |
| 06:19.16 | juub | I'm on gentoo too, where are you looking at ogl to draw your conclusions about dm-togl? |
| 06:20.05 | juub | I really think GLUT might solve a lot of your problems, it seems to me its purpose in life is to streamline exactly what you're trying to achieve. Alas, I'm far too new to graphics programming to be an authority on the subject. |
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| 19:10.48 | *** join/#brlcad Alaric` (~alaric@babcom.com) | |
| 19:12.25 | Alaric` | quick question, if I may. If I have a model in which I have discovered that I made a poor choice of origin, is there any straightforward way to grab my entire model and move and rotate all the primitives at once to give me a more convenient origin? |
| 19:57.28 | ``Erik | move the top level, then do an xpush or something? |
| 20:04.58 | ``Erik | juub: glut is awesomesauce when things are really simply, but it quickly becomes a hinderance... starseeker is bumping up agianst some ofthe problems since togl imitates glut's event loop :/ sdl is what the cool kids use :D |
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| 22:15.13 | Alaric` | this is curious .... model that currently contains 47 geometry elements; insert a new rcc foo1, mged draws it but then says foo1 already exists; kill foo1, mged kills it but then complains (four times) that it doesn't exist |
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| 23:12.30 | Alaric` | if I add one of the problem elements into a region, once, meged says the region contains it five times |
| 23:12.35 | Alaric` | mged, rather |
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