| 00:33.50 | ``Erik | hah, didn't even realize that O.o cameo by mst3k's "crow" in the futurama with the robot wrestling |
| 02:02.59 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r39612 10/brlcad/trunk/doc/ (Makefile.am mged.tar.gz): |
| 02:02.59 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: Take a stab at updating the LaTeX of mged.sh to something that will work on |
| 02:03.00 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: modern LaTeX setups. Not perfect (fig-vg*.ps seem to give some trouble) and |
| 02:03.00 | CIA-40 | BRL-CAD: figure spacing probably different than intended but certainly much much closer. |
| 02:29.40 | *** join/#brlcad Nohla (~Nohla@168.226.176.224) | |
| 03:17.55 | starseeker | Nohla: nice work! |
| 03:18.41 | Nohla | starseeker, thanks :) |
| 03:19.27 | Nohla | things that happen while you're bored at home :D |
| 03:20.09 | Nohla | (looking for excuses for not to study too ¬¬) |
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| 13:34.25 | ``Erik | huh, manned 24hour solar only flight |
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| 13:42.17 | ``Erik | hm, togl works against mesa, but not the stock X11 GL on mac *shrug* looks like it's apples screw-up, to boot |
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| 14:23.55 | joshtp | are the maintainers of BRL-CAD still from the Army, or is it in the hands of the community? i can't tell from the website/sourceforge page |
| 14:35.39 | ``Erik | both |
| 14:36.12 | ``Erik | most of the core development team is either army civilian employees or contractors |
| 14:43.17 | joshtp | so the community controls the project, and the army and their contractors are just part of the community? |
| 14:43.47 | ``Erik | probably the best way to look at it *shrug* |
| 14:44.17 | joshtp | that is, if the community aside from the army wanted to take BRL-CAD in a direction that the army did not agree upon, they could do so and force the army to either accept or fork their own BRL-CAD(Army)? |
| 14:44.45 | joshtp | though i'm sure that is unlikely, i'm just trying to get an idea who really controls the "official" BRL-CAD |
| 14:44.55 | ``Erik | anyone can fork, but as long as the direction doesn't damage the other efforts, it usually gets merged in pretty readily |
| 14:45.11 | ``Erik | hm, who controls, say, the linux kernel? :) |
| 14:45.39 | ``Erik | and we're far less structured than that, being a much smaller and more niche group :) |
| 14:45.57 | joshtp | ok thanks |
| 14:46.55 | joshtp | i'm just trying to understand how government released open source code is typically maintained after release |
| 14:47.12 | ``Erik | (brlcad could probably explain it better) |
| 14:47.25 | brlcad | sounds about right to me |
| 14:47.34 | ``Erik | nightvision lab? O.o |
| 14:47.46 | brlcad | "the community controls the project, and the army and their contractors are just part of the community" is indeed probably the best way to look at it |
| 14:48.19 | joshtp | i'm trying to get some software released as open source, and no one here has ever done that before |
| 14:48.38 | joshtp | indeed there are very few army/dod software projects that actually get open sourced |
| 14:48.53 | ``Erik | DoE has some stuff released |
| 14:49.02 | brlcad | joshtp: things are structured so they're not mutually dependent on each other, that is -- open source community *could* go in a different direction and ARL *could* stop contributing to the open source project, but that's not in the best interest of either |
| 14:49.03 | ``Erik | um, cougaar is the one I ran across a while back |
| 14:49.23 | ``Erik | gomez/rio, too |
| 14:50.06 | brlcad | joshtp: it took about five years of consistent effort involving a lot of folks to make happen, and it still gets questioned on an annual basis with lots of FUD getting spread around that has to be responded to |
| 14:52.14 | brlcad | joshtp: the HACKING file in our distribution talks about how the open source project itself operates, details such as operating as a meritocracy |
| 14:52.39 | joshtp | well i seem to be getting some support of the idea as a way to make us look open/innovative/cool |
| 14:52.48 | joshtp | brlcad: i'll check that out |
| 14:53.11 | joshtp | though my project is totally unrelated to BRL-CAD, it's more about image/video processing |
| 14:53.12 | brlcad | interesting angle, I don't think that would have worked for us :) |
| 14:56.23 | brlcad | going open source had a lot of significant fiscal benefits for ARL -- increase in potential collaboration (which was realized), cost reduction (overhead processing, administrative burdens eliminated, simplified legal/security matters), reduced distribution overhead, .. |
| 14:56.43 | brlcad | at least, that's off the cuff of what comes to mind |
| 14:57.03 | ``Erik | recruitment tool? |
| 14:57.18 | d-lo | howdy |
| 14:57.20 | brlcad | that wasn't anticipated |
| 14:57.27 | brlcad | but yeah, that too |
| 14:57.32 | ``Erik | no, but it can be a rgued as a benefit :) |
| 14:58.25 | joshtp | hopefully i'll find success |
| 14:59.20 | brlcad | in terms of justifying it, didn't argue any of the "we might get more [insert benefit here]" potential gains -- assumed nobody would contribute back or participate |
| 14:59.54 | brlcad | so then the justification could be characterized in terms of *actual* tangible benefits that would be gained for certain |
| 14:59.56 | ``Erik | well, good luck with getting your software out :) |
| 15:06.05 | starseeker | joshtp: depending on your local management, you might also point out that open source is a good way to get software that taxpayers paid for into their hands |
| 15:07.00 | joshtp | starseeker: true, i didn't think of that |
| 15:07.01 | brlcad | yeah, that's true -- there are a lot more political hammers now that didn't exist five years ago |
| 15:07.29 | brlcad | from this past year alone, there are several specific directives about pushing govt to be more open and collaborative |
| 15:07.58 | brlcad | executive directives and DoD directives |
| 15:09.01 | starseeker | hunts link... ah |
| 15:09.06 | starseeker | http://cio-nii.defense.gov/sites/oss/2009OSS.pdf |
| 15:09.46 | starseeker | some background on it here: http://www.dwheeler.com/blog/2009/10/27/#dod-oss-2009 |
| 15:09.56 | brlcad | joshtp: you can also get a lot of good advice from http://www.mil-oss.org/ |
| 15:10.07 | ``Erik | heh, sloccount guy, nifty |
| 15:10.39 | ``Erik | was something pushed by the gov't for quite a while, that one was the clarification memo iirc |
| 15:10.58 | starseeker | yeah, that's a clarfication of a 2003 memo, iirc |
| 15:11.37 | starseeker | I think this one? http://cio-nii.defense.gov/docs/OpenSourceInDoD.pdf |
| 15:13.31 | starseeker | there were a LOT of points that badly needed clarification, like (IIRC) whether GPL software counts as "Commercial off the Shelf Software" |
| 15:21.46 | starseeker | IIRC one of the slashdot comments from their story on the memo mentioned having to defend MySQL from someone who tagged it as shareware... |
| 17:22.43 | brlcad | hmm |
| 17:22.46 | brlcad | *burp* |
| 17:52.11 | starseeker | in case anyone wants some lite reading, here's BRL-CAD 7.0.2 as a pdf :-P http://brlcad.org/~starseeker/brlcad-7.0.2.pdf |
| 17:53.40 | starseeker | hmm, whoops - that version didn't get the docs pdf stuck in it |
| 17:53.57 | starseeker | ah well, source code anyway |
| 17:55.57 | starseeker | fun with scripting and a2ps |
| 17:57.17 | starseeker | hah, cool: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10324258.stm |
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| 19:41.48 | starseeker | makes a note to look at this later: http://www.delta3d.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=18707 |
| 19:54.06 | starseeker | dunno how well it might map to Ogre, but it looks like the OSG folks are making progress with Qt-in-OSG (dunno about transparency though...) |
| 20:28.12 | starseeker | http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?t=5916&highlight= |
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| 21:23.32 | Ralith | starseeker: they doing a Qt backend? |
| 21:39.19 | ``Erik | looks like they're using gl textures as the low level drawing target for the qt widgets |
| 21:40.19 | CIA-51 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r39613 10/isst/trunk/configure.ac: enable per object CFLAGS |
| 21:41.28 | CIA-51 | BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r39614 10/isst/trunk/sdl/ffu.c: beginnings of the font conversion utility |
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| 22:54.45 | CIA-51 | BRL-CAD: 03r_weiss * r39615 10/brlcad/trunk/src/conv/obj-g_new.c: logic cleanup, usage description cleanup |
| 23:10.35 | ``Erik | the BP coffee spill video: http://www.ucbcomedy.com/videos/play/6472/bp-spills-coffee |