IRC log for #brlcad on 20100803

00:02.09 *** join/#brlcad ibot (~ibot@rikers.org)
00:02.10 *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD Open Source Solid Modeling || http://brlcad.org || http://sf.net/projects/brlcad || #brlcad logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || BRL-CAD release 7.16.10 preparations and testing under way (only bug-fix, stabilization, and minor commits until tagged)
00:12.43 brlcad not with that little information
01:08.47 starseeker huh, interesting http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/08/the-us-brainpower-map/60641/
02:29.56 d-lo brlcad: ack, sorry. forgot the pastebin:
02:30.02 d-lo http://pastebin.com/ae0bZdwQ
02:34.03 d-lo *watching documentry on Chernobyl 4* ....forgot how scary it all was/is...
02:40.31 d-lo ...wow. workers picking up peices of graphite that were >7,000 Roentgen....
06:01.27 *** join/#brlcad poolio (~poolio@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
06:03.16 *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
06:43.50 *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@smartbussiness.mobicom.net.ua)
08:04.06 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (~ralith@216.162.199.202)
08:20.25 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03d_rossberg * r39994 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/CMakeLists.txt: changed to the CMake way to read from files
12:07.28 *** join/#brlcad eto (~CyBrain@unaffiliated/eto)
12:07.37 eto hello
12:07.51 eto can brl cad be used to script model creation using csg?
12:44.30 *** join/#brlcad d_rossberg (~rossberg@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ)
12:52.13 brlcad howdy d_rossberg
12:52.18 brlcad nice update to the version method
12:53.14 brlcad d-lo: wow, odd failure
12:55.20 brlcad my guess would be to 1) try a fresh checkout (not just a clean'd build), then if you still get it then 2) try adding --cache-file=/dev/null to configure
12:55.42 brlcad eto: absolutely, that's one of BRL-CAD's strengths
12:56.36 brlcad eto: see http://brlcad.org/wiki/SGI_Cube and http://brlcad.org/wiki/Spiral
12:57.08 brlcad demonstrates scripted model creation using shell script, tcl script, and via perl script
13:12.34 d_rossberg brlcad: it is sometimes burdensome to get all the strings together for a build setup (CMake or any other)
13:13.03 d_rossberg btw: how about an install setup (with CMake) for rt^3?
13:14.40 d_rossberg i tried to do so for the core interface but run into problems with finding the libraries (*.so files) from the installation directories
13:15.36 d_rossberg there happens some library search path replacements during the installation process with cmake
13:39.40 *** join/#brlcad Zaebos (~irc@pd95b7f5e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
13:44.32 *** join/#brlcad branco (~branco@79.114.30.56)
13:44.46 branco you got wiki spam
13:44.50 *** part/#brlcad branco (~branco@79.114.30.56)
13:51.52 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2257 10/wiki/Documentation: Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Linomone|Linomone]] ([[User talk:Linomone|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Ssd|Ssd]]
13:52.13 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Linomone]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites
14:14.25 kanzure good morning
14:15.06 kanzure does anyone have hints for where the step import utility is?
14:24.09 kanzure brlcad: there seems to be an =n at the end of this file: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spiral.pl
14:39.19 *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@83.37.154.93)
15:10.34 *** join/#brlcad _psilva (~psilva@static-96-255-52-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
15:23.20 brlcad kanzure: step-g on a source install in the bin directory
15:26.10 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39995 10/brlcad/trunk/src/proc-db/spiral.pl: kanzure notes a stray =n, probably from syncing with the wiki
15:30.56 brlcad thx kanzure
15:32.11 kanzure brlcad: found it in src/other/step/src/
15:32.31 kanzure brlcad: for some reason while tracing through the SCL code it seems to hook up with OpenNURBS?
15:32.40 kanzure like in src/conv/step/OpenNurbsInterfaces.cpp
15:33.25 kanzure was this code generated or written by hand?
15:39.18 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39996 10/brlcad/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): bump, regressions all passing. preparing for release 7.16.10
15:45.33 _psilva brlcad: how was siggraph
15:46.10 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r39997 10/brlcad/trunk/ChangeLog: updated ChangeLog in preparation for 7.16.10, updates since 2010-04-28
15:48.03 brlcad kanzure: src/other/step is the processing library layer, the converter is build as src/conv/step/step-g
15:48.54 brlcad src/other/step does not hook into openNURBS, but our converter (src/conv/step) does import them as openNURBS entites
15:49.17 kanzure huh
15:49.44 kanzure so you don't do export yet?
15:49.52 brlcad no export yet
15:50.06 brlcad writing an exporter would be the next task after the importer is complete
15:50.13 brlcad but the exporter is the FAR simpler task
15:50.50 kanzure so, i have a python-based STEP export utility
15:50.51 brlcad probably could have a pretty feature-filled exporter in less than a week, just not yet priority
15:50.56 kanzure and nobody is going to use it if there's no visualizer
15:51.05 kanzure originally i was thinking of using opencascade for the visualization of the STEP files that it generates
15:51.14 kanzure but honestly the reason i started working on it was so that i could avoid the dependency on opencascade
15:51.31 brlcad perfectly reasonable reason
15:51.34 kanzure so
15:51.41 kanzure i was thinking that i could maybe steal brlcad's visualizer
15:51.50 brlcad sure
15:52.17 kanzure i haven't used step-g yet.. how fast/slow is it for reasonable models?
15:52.38 kanzure i mean, ideally, each time a user adds in a NURBS or brep object, i'd want to generate a STEP file and ask the visualizer to render it
15:52.45 brlcad it's geared for full detailed vehicles, production use
15:52.54 kanzure but a user-enabled "render it!" button/action would be fine too
15:53.02 kanzure i hear there's an opengl renderer as well?
15:53.20 kanzure i mean frankly this is just a bunch of triangles right? :P
15:53.26 brlcad you could get a render-it button with step-g and rt pretty easily (scriptably)
15:53.34 kanzure GPUs should be able to eat this up
15:53.35 brlcad the raytrace is going to take longer than the conversion
15:53.38 kanzure yes
15:53.57 kanzure hm
15:54.04 kanzure well, i guess i can do step-g -> g-stl
15:54.07 kanzure and then use.. uh..
15:54.22 brlcad our step-g doesn't presently handle polygonal models, it reads in advanced boundary representation s(i.e. NURBS objects)
15:54.26 kanzure right
15:54.39 kanzure but brlcad can export NURBS into meshes right?
15:55.07 kanzure and then i can just use something that can render STL files
15:55.24 kanzure frankly this is going to suck for large objects or complicated STEP files
15:56.46 brlcad neit!
15:57.05 kanzure do you have any insight into how i.e. solidworks renders its models? at some point it has to convert the curve-based geometries into triangulated meshes
15:57.06 brlcad we do not yet have tessellation support implemented for NURBS, it's next on our list
15:57.17 kanzure hrm
15:57.17 brlcad so you can't run g-stl on a nurbs
15:57.21 kanzure fooey
15:57.53 brlcad kanzure: feel free to implement it :)
15:57.57 brlcad not that hard really
15:58.10 brlcad we should have it implemented probably within 3 months
15:58.26 kanzure is this how other CAD engines do it? they tesselate their model every time it changes?
15:58.47 brlcad they tessellate it on the fly just to pass it to opengl
15:58.49 kanzure (i am especially thinking of solidworks where the user updates the model with the mouse and sees real-time changes)
15:58.50 brlcad it's really that easy
15:59.03 brlcad you just iterate over each surface
15:59.07 kanzure doesn't tessellation scale geometrically with the number of surfaces or some shit like that?
15:59.16 brlcad we actually already have it implemented for our former nurbs implementation
15:59.29 kanzure know where in the src tree that might be? i'd like to peak
15:59.36 brlcad depends on how you make the knobs for tessellation
15:59.52 brlcad if you create a fixed number of polys per surface, yeah.. you're gonna get screwed if there are lots of surfaces
16:00.10 brlcad ideally, you create fewer for smaller surfaces, more for larger
16:00.16 brlcad fewer for flat, more for curved, etc
16:00.21 kanzure ah right, and you usually set smoothness and other parameters
16:01.09 brlcad gotta run, lunch.. bbiab!
17:08.10 *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@31-197-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
18:01.04 ``Erik doobiedoobiedoo
18:12.47 _psilva *burp*
18:54.39 *** join/#brlcad Alexandrus (~nil@p4FE3DE3B.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:20.30 CIA-43 BRL-CAD: 03n_reed * r39998 10/brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/ (5 files in 2 dirs): more widgets for bot utility; layout change
19:47.37 *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
20:05.50 _psilva well then
20:05.56 _psilva web urls are valid c/c++
20:05.57 Alexandrus now
20:06.02 Alexandrus rofl..
20:06.07 _psilva mind boggling
20:06.17 Alexandrus all of them?
20:06.22 _psilva of course
20:06.30 _psilva http: is a label, // is a comment
20:07.00 _psilva in fact vc++ is stupid enough to just warn about unused 'labels' if u have more than one web url in the file
20:08.02 Alexandrus lol...labels
20:08.10 Alexandrus haven't used them in any language in ages
20:08.16 Alexandrus wonder they still exist
20:09.40 ``Erik of course they do, goto must survive at all costs!
20:10.03 ``Erik (linux has tons of labels and gotos, BRL-CAD has a few, ...)
20:10.38 starseeker even Lisp can use them, in principle - I've seen them used for a state machine
20:11.12 _psilva we use em for small fsa
20:11.38 _psilva but where's the 'error on web urls' option :o
20:11.44 Alexandrus <- does use labels only in "case"
20:12.01 Alexandrus http:// might compile, but propably will crash next line
20:12.02 Alexandrus (fpc)
20:12.06 starseeker _psilva: how'd you stuble onto that one?
20:13.40 _psilva pasted a url and forgot the comment into a .cpp
20:13.47 starseeker ah :-)
20:13.57 _psilva compiled the project and barely caught the warning
20:13.58 _psilva heh
20:13.59 ``Erik pebcak
20:14.05 starseeker shh - don't tell ``Erik you work with cpp!
20:14.25 _psilva i've drunk the tegtmeyer coolaid
20:14.27 _psilva :o
20:14.53 starseeker uh oh :-)
20:17.11 Alexandrus has cpp been declared sin by a brl-cad god?
20:17.24 _psilva we've certainly gone over the deepend with namespace and meta programming
20:17.31 _psilva so aint no turning back :p
20:17.56 starseeker _psilva: "we"? not the BRL-CAD we, surely
20:18.12 _psilva nah, company i work for
20:18.24 starseeker Alexandrus: I'm reminded of the ghostbusters scene - ``Erik, "are you a god?"
20:18.25 _psilva next major version is mostly a rewrite
20:18.29 starseeker ow
20:19.00 Alexandrus @starseeker: i have to admit, i am atheist...
20:19.04 Alexandrus so...no....
20:19.06 Alexandrus i am not:P
20:19.22 starseeker reflects that BRL-CAD is gradually using more and more C++ - OpenNURBS and STEP stuff now, looking into Qt and OGRE...
20:19.28 starseeker Alexandrus: hehe
20:20.20 brlcad howdy _psilva .. saw your guys booth, didn't get a chance to talk though
20:20.29 _psilva hey
20:20.41 _psilva was the demo crashed?
20:20.42 _psilva heh
20:21.23 _psilva there was a gc stack unrolling issue causing the ps3 to stack overflow
20:21.37 _psilva causing the demo to freeze frequently :(
20:22.01 _psilva did u try out the stereo setup tho?
20:25.27 starseeker _psilva: I'm drawing a blank - which project are you with? (sorry...)
20:27.24 _psilva commercial one *evil* :)
20:27.27 _psilva scaleform.com
20:28.34 Alexandrus internal commercial filtered one line...
20:28.37 starseeker _psilva: nah, commerical firms are only evil if they *act* that way. Many (most?) are not
20:31.28 _psilva to flash haters we are evil heh
20:31.56 Alexandrus there must be flash-satanists:P
20:34.46 brlcad _psilva: I didn't see a demo, so apparently
20:35.29 _psilva woops
20:35.42 _psilva i think we may have switched to a demo reel as backup :)
20:37.32 _psilva heard the expo was smaller this time around?
20:38.16 brlcad just a lil bit
20:40.02 ``Erik ain't nothin' wrong with cpp, starseeker, but c++... :D
20:40.21 brlcad heh
20:40.50 brlcad poor misunderstood c preprocessor, given a bad wrap due to msvc
20:41.43 ``Erik (notice that C++ stuff from a UNIX environment tends to be .c++, .cxx, .cc, .C, ... the original 4 recommended extensions :D )
20:42.19 ``Erik psilva: actually a flash engine, or just using actionscript as the input language?
20:43.21 brlcad .cxx ftw
20:43.45 brlcad portable and unambiguous
20:44.07 ``Erik ayup, that's the one I choose if I ever expect it to touch winderz
20:44.26 Alexandrus wouldn't you like to write it all in pseudo code?:P
20:44.53 ``Erik wants to write it all in CL and laugh when c++ weenies think they're doing metaprogramming :D *duck*
20:46.05 brlcad Alexandrus: not particularly, I find writing pseudocode more time-consuming and difficult than real code
20:46.18 brlcad since you can't incrementally compile, test, and structure it
20:46.47 Alexandrus @brlcad: i develop my algorithms weeks for weeks on a board
20:46.53 Alexandrus most ist math
20:47.06 Alexandrus writting code is the fast hack at the end of a long journey
20:48.00 _psilva ``Erik: flash engine i guess
20:48.22 _psilva just author SWFs and run it with gfx
20:48.32 Alexandrus so...99% i write is pseudo code
20:49.15 ``Erik hm, still waiting for a decent open source flash engine... almost took the time to learn 'haxe' and just suck it up using a browser
20:51.38 _psilva haxe isnt a flash engine
20:51.57 _psilva only thing close to an oss flash engine is gameswf
20:52.06 _psilva which hundreds have forked (incl us)
20:56.49 ``Erik yeah, but haxe can compile to flash, iirc
20:59.07 ``Erik then the browser can execute it
20:59.24 _psilva it's still actionscript, but yes, it can generate swfs
21:00.10 ``Erik (it provides a lot of simplified capabilities, like trivial standardized portable-ish 2d rendering shtuff)
21:01.05 _psilva but any as2/3 compiler with the right (intrinsic) class defns can do that
21:01.29 _psilva mtasc can mix in an existing swf (with graphics/symbols) with custom actionscript
21:02.21 _psilva biggest problem is really the ide part
21:02.31 _psilva no real good soln
21:02.39 _psilva nothing comes close to flash studio
21:02.51 _psilva the next best thing is another commercial product, swf quicker
21:03.16 ``Erik haxe is the 'next gen' of mtasc, I thought
21:04.57 _psilva dunno about that
21:05.27 _psilva got plenty of customers using mtasc; never gotten one wanting to use haxe
21:05.48 ``Erik http://www.mtasc.org/ says so *shrug*
21:06.13 ``Erik mebbe people want as2 for compatibility
21:06.54 _psilva perhaps, but the issue is haxe != actionscript
21:07.15 _psilva similar-ish syntax, but more effort to port code
21:07.52 _psilva ultimately its all avm1 bytecode, but still
21:07.56 ``Erik *shrug* :) I dunno either, just all looked like a bytecode solution that's good for 2d game writing
21:07.57 _psilva development phase counts
21:08.25 _psilva oh yea, im sure its good for programmer types
21:08.33 _psilva sucks for our target audience
21:09.51 ``Erik :D I'm a programmer type, so haxe looked attractive... the adobe as click/drag/drop ui aint' mah thang
21:10.22 ``Erik (of course, now I'm looking at ogre3d/bullet/OIS using common lisp, different ideas... lots of ideas and enthusiasm, never any action...)
21:10.39 _psilva plenty of non-programmer types around, hence why we're in business :)
21:10.54 _psilva solve a workflow problem and gain fans
21:10.59 ``Erik *nod* designer types dislike having to do programmy things
21:11.29 _psilva of course we get plenty of mutterings from ui programmers itching to create Yet Another UI System
21:11.33 _psilva sucks for them ;)
21:11.52 ``Erik hehhe "fine. You get forth. Suck it." :D
21:12.36 _psilva the less the artists/designers talk to programmers and vice versa, the happier everyone becomes
21:12.55 ``Erik I've noticed that
21:13.26 *** join/#brlcad Nohla (~Nohla@201.255.255.197)
21:13.28 ``Erik I busted arse to recompile my prep tools to run on windows, and they continued bitching about having to open up a dos window and run a .exe file with args
21:14.33 ``Erik ended up writing a java class to execute commands with some fu to handle args, stdin, stdout, stderr, all in a cheery java-esque wrapper and finding a java weenie to try building a resource management gui
21:15.36 ``Erik and my battery is about to die O.o hasta manana :)
21:16.38 _psilva heh
21:16.43 _psilva cya
22:12.28 starseeker O.o the FBI is bugging wikipedia about their copy of the FBI seal image?
22:12.58 starseeker uh...
22:13.01 Alexandrus let them remove it:P
22:13.15 Alexandrus fbi without seal is fine:P
22:41.23 *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@222-23-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
23:24.40 *** join/#brlcad Nohla (~Nohla@201.255.255.197)

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