IRC log for #brlcad on 20101105

00:34.22 *** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (~stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org)
01:44.47 louipc wowzarz
01:47.31 *** join/#brlcad juanman (~quassel@unaffiliated/juanman)
02:13.19 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net)
04:23.24 brlcad ``Erik: autogen/configure seems to be happy on automake 1.6
04:25.59 *** join/#brlcad stevegt_1 (~stevegt@c-69-181-134-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
10:12.36 *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@193.153.52.142)
12:03.57 starseeker tries distcheck on gentoo, crosses fingers - maybe this will be an easy cycle and we can sync to STABLE soon
12:05.34 starseeker auuugh
12:05.36 starseeker brlcad-7.17.0/src/other/boost/spirit/home/support/iterators/detail/buffering_input_iterator_policy.hpp: file name is too long (max 99); not dumped
12:06.20 starseeker will revert that for release then - not in use currently, and we can sort it out later
12:23.18 *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@64-136-219-55.dyn.everestkc.net)
12:23.18 *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1)
12:38.06 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41251 10/brlcad/trunk/src/other/boost/ (1147 files in 136 dirs): Revert the boost upgrade - resulting in filenames too long for tar. Will deal with this after the release.
12:38.30 *** join/#brlcad juanman (~quassel@unaffiliated/juanman)
12:39.08 starseeker sigh
12:39.11 starseeker tries again
12:50.50 brlcad heh
12:51.53 brlcad starseeker: you should be good to go for release once everything is tested
12:51.57 brlcad make sure all user-visible commits since last release are documented (ChangeLog is good for that)
12:52.26 brlcad I took care of everything in my queue, but I usually double-check the log
12:54.40 starseeker ah, cool :-)
12:54.52 starseeker hmm, looks like something weird here:
12:55.02 starseeker ../../../include/conf/COUNT:1:1: error: invalid suffix "n" on integer constant
12:55.48 starseeker aand... sure enough, there is an n after the 1
12:55.55 _psilva_ so what are you guys using spirit for?
12:56.01 starseeker libpc
12:56.15 starseeker parametric constraints
12:56.22 _psilva_ parsing them?
12:58.35 brlcad starseeker: that's something erik's seen on a bsd system
12:58.51 brlcad results from configure setting a wrong value for ECHO
12:59.38 starseeker ah
12:59.46 brlcad printf "%d\n" 123
12:59.48 starseeker _psilva_: evaluating them
12:59.52 brlcad vs echo "123\n"
13:00.06 starseeker so it's my particular autotools's fault?
13:00.15 brlcad *shrug*
13:00.16 starseeker hopes
13:00.28 brlcad did you autogen.sh on that platform?
13:00.34 starseeker I beleve so
13:00.41 starseeker will do it totally clean to be sure
13:01.25 starseeker oo - might have some static files, hang on
13:02.05 brlcad grep ECHO include/conf/Makefile
13:03.19 starseeker _psilva_: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Libpc
13:03.46 starseeker or whoops, http://brlcad.org/wiki/Libpg_:_A_parametrics/constraint_library
13:03.56 starseeker second one looks better
13:04.37 starseeker not sure why it's Libpg there...
13:05.15 brlcad original name, "parametric geometry"
13:05.27 brlcad he was going to make separate geometry objects
13:05.33 brlcad told him that was nfg
13:06.32 brlcad so it was reworked to be libpc, which librt uses
13:17.26 brlcad thinks the GCI list is going to make a good "how to get started contributing to BRL-CAD" list even if we're not accepted
13:18.17 brlcad starseeker: oh yeah, note the outstanding TODO item for Windows
13:28.53 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2332 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: BU jumping
13:29.39 starseeker brlcad: yeah, ECHO = printf %s\n
13:30.11 starseeker so it's not our fault :-)
13:30.30 starseeker and the failure was from a clean autogen
13:31.33 ``Erik I've seen the issue on my mac, too
13:31.53 ``Erik and on a linux box iirc
13:33.24 ``Erik it also shows up at the end of the build
13:33.26 ``Erik ---nRun 'make test' to run the BRL-CAD Test SuitenRun 'make benchmark' to run the BRL-CAD Benchmark Suitenn**********************************************************n BRL-CAD 7.17.0 is now installed into /usr/brlcad/HEADn Be sure to add /usr/brlcad/HEAD/bin to your PATHn**********************************************************nnmake[2]: Entering directory `/var/tmp/erikg/brlcadbuild'
13:33.51 starseeker looks like this may be related: http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-autoconf@gnu.org/msg02903.html
13:35.14 starseeker hmm: http://www.mail-archive.com/bug-autoconf@gnu.org/msg02911.html
13:38.15 starseeker yeah, this is not a BRL-CAD specific issue from the looks of it - recent libtool changed something
13:39.40 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2333 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: SCLstring -> std::string
13:40.22 ``Erik from 02912: The bug is not in 'echo', but in the improper use of $(ECHO) within ``
13:40.25 ``Erik inside the Makefile
13:43.11 starseeker let me see if we can override it by force in configure.ac - there's a place where we check if $ECHO was defined at all
13:43.27 starseeker perhaps a check there for this printf statement, and an override if it is present, would get it working
13:44.52 ``Erik echo is posix (echo -n is NOT, however), where does $(ECHO) actually buy us anything?
13:45.47 starseeker shrugs - dunno. I'm just looking for the most minimal change to get us past distcheck right now, removing $(ECHO) would be a fair bit of work
13:46.26 ``Erik it would? O.o
13:46.50 starseeker not in and of itself, but looking for what prompted us to make it a variable and confirm it's no longer an issue
13:54.07 starseeker bah, overriding it does nothing
13:54.23 starseeker ``Erik: OK, I was wrong - perhaps we do need to replace $(ECHO)
13:55.19 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2334 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: quell verbose warnings in src/util
14:06.49 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2335 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: clean up the 'analyze' command
14:08.35 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41252 10/brlcad/trunk/ (5 files in 5 dirs): Try replacing $(ECHO) with echo in the Makefile.am files - the newest libtool is using a printf expression for $(ECHO) that is resulting in extra n characters at the end of lines.
14:11.23 starseeker Ubuntu is going to try Wayland instead of X.org????
14:14.42 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2336 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: research impact of setting CPU affinity
14:15.31 starseeker tries to figure out what Wayland is...
14:15.34 starseeker ah
14:17.29 brlcad the reason it's $(ECHO) at all is because there are/were platforms where "echo" is not found
14:17.55 brlcad so you needed to rely on configure detecting the echo mechanism for that platform
14:18.16 starseeker apparently modern libtool is going to gum that up but good
14:19.40 brlcad so how to address both problems?
14:19.51 starseeker CMake? :-P
14:20.04 starseeker what platforms lack echo?
14:21.11 brlcad you'd have to search the logs
14:21.37 starseeker If they're still relevant today we've got a problem
14:25.17 brlcad from that mailing list, it looks like it's recent libtool that's causing the problem and they're going to fix it
14:27.14 starseeker that was back in august though
14:29.38 starseeker earliest item I see in the first cut is r23717
14:33.21 _psilva_ hm Vala looks interesting
14:38.02 starseeker brlcad: for include/conf/Makefile.am the change to $(ECHO) came at r31964
14:40.03 starseeker for bench/Makefile.am it was r24110
14:40.18 starseeker I don't see a motivation in eather of those...
14:42.03 starseeker in the case of the toplevel Makefile.am it was using @ECHO@
14:45.12 starseeker first appearance in db/Makefile.am was r30442
14:45.45 starseeker and step I'm sure inherited it from BRL-CAD's file
14:46.40 starseeker does not appear to be mentioned in any toplevel file (TODO/NEWS/etc.)
14:49.35 brlcad no matter then, you can just do the solaris build when they're back up and running ;)
14:49.49 starseeker heh :-)
14:49.59 brlcad they're probably the closest platform to causing any modern issue
14:50.46 starseeker they're posix though, correct?
14:52.58 brlcad traditionally, the strictest
14:53.03 brlcad even where posix has flaws
14:53.46 brlcad e.g., if posix just says echo has to be on the system somewhere, that doesn't mean it's in your path or is built-in or is available within Makefiles .. lots of variables in play
14:55.01 starseeker ah
14:56.22 starseeker well, fwiw, the gentoo build is progressing well
14:56.32 starseeker ``Erik: did that get your Mac working?
14:59.37 starseeker sweet - after the echo change, distcheck passes on gentoo
15:00.54 ``Erik seems to all be good, lemme purge and reconfigure/compile
15:01.15 starseeker anybody know of a test farm somewhere where we could set up a Solaris build?
15:08.10 starseeker may have to poke at the GCC farm to see if they have something viable and would consider allowing us on there...
15:08.23 starseeker or perhaps we could use virtualbox/qemu and set something up...
15:19.05 starseeker alrightie, distcheck passes here, heading in
15:23.20 ``Erik cliff
15:38.38 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2337 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: g-iges + iges-g changes
15:40.54 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2338 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: new website solicitation
15:56.30 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2339 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: lots of missing manual pages, provide an easy and hard task
16:18.58 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2340 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: command spreadsheets
16:24.39 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2341 10/wiki/Google_Code_In/Project_Ideas: reword for generality
17:05.15 *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@193.153.52.142)
17:29.39 ``Erik fresh configure/make on fbsd8 and osX.6 both succeed
17:41.01 starseeker sweet
17:47.54 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03brlcad * r41253 10/brlcad/trunk/HACKING:
17:47.54 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: that first step should really also include notifying the brlcad-devel mailing
17:47.54 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: list with a simple message letting others know that someone has begun release
17:47.54 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: steps so that others know to keep the commits at ease for a couple days
17:48.20 starseeker distcheck passed on Redhat
17:53.28 brlcad starseeker: not to throw a wrench into the release, but there needs to be a strong change that distinguishes pushing out the minor or it should be a merged 7.16.12 off stable
17:53.42 brlcad at least an api change (deprecations, removal of obsoletes)
17:55.25 brlcad I'm thinking we can hit up the pre 7 and 7.12 deprecations quickly
17:56.59 starseeker k, cool
17:57.00 brlcad otherwise, we can declare archer in official alpha status if it's stable enough, but I didn't get a chance to talk to bob
17:57.21 starseeker he's in today, feeling better - he should be in next week
17:57.41 brlcad ask him what he thinks about an alpha archer
17:58.06 brlcad presuming we all are on the same page as to what that means .. :)
17:58.10 starseeker I'm willing to go the 16.12 route, but what does "merged 7.16.12 off of stable" mean? sync to stable without updating the version numbers?
17:58.30 starseeker brlcad: first, define what it means to you :-)
17:58.57 brlcad well, head is already 7.17 so it technically shouldn't regress back to 7.16 but stable is still at 7.16 so it can move forward a minor and get tagged from there
17:59.53 starseeker we probably can't declare it alpha without turning opengl in the default builds
17:59.55 brlcad not a big deal with 7.17 since it's still dev, it could be committed briefly as 7.16.12 for release purpose then jumped back (to 7.17.1)
18:00.23 starseeker nods - that might be a way to go
18:01.47 brlcad alpha means we're including it enabled in all binary installs now and ACTIVELY soliciting users to check it out, provide feedback, and that we're otherwise done adding features from our end
18:02.19 starseeker ah, we are not done adding features
18:02.22 brlcad it's not quite a feature-lock yet, but new features should be mostly in response to user feedback
18:02.24 starseeker so the answer is a definite now
18:02.26 starseeker er no
18:03.17 brlcad then beta is then when it goes into lock-down and the only new features are in response to bugs or problems (e.g. usability)
18:03.28 starseeker sketch editing, pipe editing, finishing comb editing...
18:04.05 starseeker nods - yeah, we're a ways away then
18:04.10 brlcad finishing /refining features is okay during alpha
18:04.25 brlcad adding new/missing ones usually isn't
18:05.08 starseeker we might (generously) call comb editing a finishing/refining, but not sketch and pipe - they're not present at all ATM
18:05.52 brlcad so then the question is whether they are release critical
18:06.06 starseeker sketch probably not, pipe I would say yes
18:06.23 brlcad what about via libged?
18:06.31 brlcad command-line editing, is that working for them?
18:07.04 starseeker bob says "in theory yeah, using the adjust command - may not be practical for big pipes"
18:07.17 brlcad k
18:08.00 brlcad so not quite ready, and release is then either API deprecations/removals or a minor release
18:08.56 brlcad searchable command manual pages in mged would be a good minor justification too
18:09.44 starseeker not sure we can whip that off in a day or two - what searching mechanism did you have in mind?
18:09.50 brlcad keyword
18:09.53 starseeker hunts up the deprecations file
18:10.17 starseeker I mean, what mechanism to look through the files? grep? a tcl regex match? etc.
18:10.27 brlcad *shrug*
18:11.38 starseeker bob says he might be able to have someing servicable for pipe in a week or so
18:11.51 brlcad ideally like pdf searching in Preview
18:12.45 brlcad type some word(s) and get a list of the matching line with surrounding context in a summary list with the word bolded that jumps you to that line on that page
18:13.05 starseeker oh, I see - yeah, that's not a quickie
18:13.40 brlcad so it'd be a straight-up grep, but the good usability aspect is the results while you type, the context, and jumping you to the match
18:15.09 starseeker right - sounds good, just a bunch of details like the mechanics of highlighting words in tkhtml would take a bit of time (for me at least :-/)
18:15.57 brlcad that part of the search pane wouldn't need to be tkhtml
18:16.09 brlcad you'd just need snippets of text and a list view
18:18.36 starseeker It's probably not hard, but I still wouldn't bet on pulling it together prior to release starting cold
18:23.20 starseeker I'd say rather than force it, let's go for 7.16.12 and then take steps to make sure the next one is 7.18
18:23.28 brlcad probably less than a day's work for sure, but it's fine either way -- clearing out the deprecations will take a few hours too
18:23.52 brlcad that's fine
18:24.05 starseeker are those the ones in raytrace.h and whatnot?
18:24.15 brlcad the doc file
18:24.27 brlcad the 7.12's and the pre7's
18:24.34 starseeker oh, I see them
18:24.46 starseeker so just go through and make sure our code doesn't use them?
18:25.12 brlcad and ideally deprecating anything else we see (particularly libbu/libbn/libwdb/librt) .. should give notice about libnmg
18:25.19 brlcad right
18:25.39 brlcad make sure we don't use them, and remove their decls from headers or the headers
18:25.39 starseeker libnmg... oh, you mean that it'll be moving back to its own lib?
18:25.58 brlcad right -- technically, that's a body of librt API that's being removed from librt
18:26.10 *** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (~stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org)
18:26.12 brlcad minor, but worth documenting
18:26.33 starseeker yow. how much detail do we need to document for that one? full list of functions and vars that will be going away?
18:27.13 brlcad no, just categorically say the nmg_* functions/structures/defines or "the nmg code" or similar
18:27.24 starseeker (aside) with distcheck passing now on multiple platforms, I'm gonna go ahead and try a stable sync
18:27.34 starseeker cool
18:27.40 brlcad and then marking them in the headers
18:27.51 brlcad it's 500+ functions, so no sense listing them all
18:27.56 starseeker so that'll be 7.20 or 7.22?
18:29.28 brlcad deprecations announced in 7.16.12 can be moved in 7.20
18:29.41 brlcad deprecations in 7.18 are 8.22
18:29.44 brlcad er, 7.22 ;)
18:30.01 starseeker crosses fingers, toes, etc. and starts the merge command...
18:30.22 brlcad that's why it's more important to mark deprecated than it is to remove for obsoletion
18:30.32 starseeker brlcad: now you're giving us an incentive to make this 7.16.12 :-P
18:30.33 brlcad obsoletion just becomes a good justification for minor
18:31.02 brlcad yesh -- deprecation pushes patch, obsolete pushes minor
18:31.31 starseeker is dizzy
18:31.40 brlcad though libnmg is arguably "minimally impacting"
18:32.04 starseeker I doubt many people call nmg functions direct...
18:32.05 brlcad so it could happen at any time since it's a regex fix to a build file s/-lrt/-lrt -lnmg/
18:32.33 starseeker oh, gotcha - make into libnmg, but preserve API
18:32.47 brlcad right, if the api doesn't change, it's still available
18:33.05 starseeker was under the impression the API could stand a little TLC...
18:33.16 brlcad doesn't matter if we think *nobody* uses it -- it matters if we "publicly published" in some manner
18:33.41 starseeker true
18:33.58 starseeker yeah, I think that counts as minor then
18:34.00 brlcad every API could use some TLC but it's actually one of the more consistent ones .. just very terse
18:34.38 brlcad it counts as a minor, but it may still be minimally impacting .. have to see what all is impacted when it's moved
18:34.56 brlcad the move can still happen and it get bundled into librt as a LIBADD
18:35.08 brlcad then removed in 7.20
18:35.20 starseeker nods
18:36.20 starseeker wonders if it might be better to do this sync in stages...
19:48.22 _psilva_ we change APIs in alpha :p
19:52.51 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41254 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/tcl/CMake/CheckSystemFunctionality.cmake:
19:52.51 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: Start trying to make a more generic version of the CMake functionality for
19:52.51 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: checking things. This one will hopefully cover both the config.h case and the
19:52.51 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: CFLAGS case, although a lot of rewiring is needed to test it properly.
20:04.39 brlcad nothing wrong with an API changing in alpha, it's supposed to change, even in beta I'd expect maybe some changes
20:08.35 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41255 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/tcl/ (CMake/tcl.cmake CMakeLists.txt): Shift tcl build to using changed macros.
20:19.02 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41256 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/tk/library/CMakeLists.txt: As with tcl, put the tk scripts where they should be for a local run (hopefully)
21:08.33 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41257 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Get closer to a proper itcl build - not there yet, need to compare with a standard itcl build and install.
21:13.50 *** join/#brlcad packrat (~packrator@99-67-225-40.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
21:54.49 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41258 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/ (incrTcl/itcl/CMakeLists.txt tcl/CMakeLists.txt): Fix a couple bugs, add a little extra foo to make itcl locatable in the build dir.
22:46.46 CIA-48 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41259 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/bwish/main.c: BWISH is not cooperating - tweak it some, but so far it only starts if run from exactly the build dir.
23:02.26 starseeker meh - tclsh runs successfully now, but btclsh doesn't (at least, not in the build)
23:03.56 starseeker drills into tclsh to see why it's succeeding when we're failing...
23:10.24 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net)
23:26.55 starseeker hmm, tcl_library isn't set right
23:31.01 starseeker checks to make sure tclsh works after install...
23:34.08 starseeker yep, that's it - somehow, tcl_library in the CMake btclsh build is getting set to a (wrong) relative path
23:34.40 starseeker will check the autotools build for foo he missed when doing the initial setup

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