| 01:00.53 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@64-136-219-55.dyn.everestkc.net) | |
| 01:00.53 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) | |
| 02:14.05 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41260 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/tcl/CMake/tcl.cmake: Whoops, copy-paste error. |
| 02:25.02 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41261 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/bwish/CMakeLists.txt: whoops - put the X libraries and libdm where they belong |
| 03:26.19 | *** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (~stevegt@c-69-181-134-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 04:00.36 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41262 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 04:00.36 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: OK, referred to the trunk bwish to figure this out - need the auto_path set by |
| 04:00.36 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: tclcad_auto_path if the default init fails - I'm not sure why we wouldn't want |
| 04:00.36 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: to use the tclcad paths for bwish by default, so just put the call in until it's |
| 04:00.36 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: clear why we shouldn't. Add the paths we need for this CMake build |
| 09:58.29 | *** join/#brlcad mafm (~mafm@81.37.119.4) | |
| 13:03.23 | brlcad | hehe: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3D-Graphic-Design-CAD-Modelling-Art-Software-CD-/170561762369 |
| 13:18.40 | louipc | odd thing to put on ebay |
| 13:26.53 | ``Erik | an odder thing would be http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3D-Graphic-Design-CAD-Modelling-Art-Software-CD-/170561762369 |
| 13:26.56 | ``Erik | doh |
| 13:27.02 | ``Erik | http://blogofwishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/dvd-rewinder.jpg |
| 13:27.04 | ``Erik | there we go |
| 13:30.47 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41263 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/incrTcl/itcl/CMakeLists.txt: Copy paste - this isn't the TCL dir |
| 13:31.25 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41264 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/incrTcl/itk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Make a stab at itk conversion to a working CMake config. |
| 13:33.25 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41265 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/incrTcl/ (itcl/CMake/tcl.cmake itk/CMake/tcl.cmake): Don't include ac_std_funcs - it may not be needed here, don't include it until it is. |
| 13:41.09 | starseeker | louipc: someone who knows nothing about open source might go for a CD like that - they might feel a bit foolish if they actually figured it out later though |
| 13:41.31 | ``Erik | ... I bought a cd sorta kinda almost like that once |
| 13:41.45 | ``Erik | because it was cheaper and easier than downloading it over an analog modem |
| 13:42.08 | ``Erik | and I still don't feel foolish |
| 13:42.16 | ``Erik | at least, not over that |
| 13:42.36 | ``Erik | (ok, th eone I bought was a 3cd walnut creek set with the exact stuff listed on the website) |
| 13:43.28 | louipc | well, it's only $5 or something |
| 13:50.16 | ``Erik | heh, and the walnut creek one had something called 'pcc', personal C compiler, for dos... :D the doodling with the c64 C compiler was lame since I liked asm and had a monitor and a basic interpreter... on dos, allz I had was pcc so'z I had to adapt hardcore |
| 13:54.43 | starseeker | ``Erik: yeah, if it's a "cheaper bandwidth via mail" CD that's one thing, but they don't need all the fancy pictures and whatnot for that |
| 13:54.58 | ``Erik | I d'no |
| 13:55.14 | ``Erik | back before the riaa went all fucktarded suicide asshole, I liked to buy cd's with good cover art |
| 13:55.45 | starseeker | has see this with other things - there'a a "book publisher" who is infamous for re-publishing every bit of free content they can find and trying to come off as something else |
| 13:55.47 | ``Erik | wasn't the point, but was part of the package :) |
| 13:55.59 | ``Erik | hey now |
| 13:56.08 | ``Erik | don't knock penguin publishing, they're a great source for cheap classics |
| 13:56.13 | ``Erik | :> |
| 13:56.18 | starseeker | shrugs - yeah, if you want cover art for software that might be a good way :-) |
| 13:56.47 | ``Erik | I bought the 'collectors edition' for the world of warnerd wrath of the dork king expansion |
| 13:56.50 | starseeker | nah, I was thinking of those guys who effectively spam amazon and whatnot with government reports, wikipedia articles, etc. as books |
| 13:56.57 | ``Erik | at a premium... came with a book, a mousepad, a nice box, ... |
| 13:57.41 | ``Erik | in my old age, there's more to life than bits :) |
| 13:57.51 | starseeker | sure penguin, Dover, etc. do a lot of good stuff |
| 13:57.59 | ``Erik | and I can appreciate the packaging of apple products *shrug* even though it's transportation trash, it's well done |
| 13:58.17 | starseeker | (although it annoys me that Dover does just enough tweaking on the stuff on their art CDs to claim new copyright" |
| 13:58.32 | ``Erik | I tend to go with penguin, myself |
| 13:59.11 | starseeker | is tempted to look at what's on the Dover CDs, track down the original sources, and re-scan 'em |
| 13:59.20 | ``Erik | project gutenberg? |
| 14:00.10 | ``Erik | had a script to roughly TeX-ize the txt from pg to make a pleasantly readable version at one point... still needed hand tweaking, but it did a lot of the heavy lifting |
| 14:00.33 | starseeker | nah, gutenberg likes ASCII text, although I guess they've started branching out a little |
| 14:00.43 | starseeker | ah, cool! |
| 14:01.14 | starseeker | did find on Google books scans of some of the original Strand magazines with the Sherlock Holmes stories |
| 14:01.44 | ``Erik | I should get a library card :/ it sucks that I'm not in walking distance from teh library |
| 14:02.19 | ``Erik | in memphis, I'd go for an evening walk and come back with something like beowulf or the prince for reading until my next walk, was nice :) |
| 14:03.21 | ``Erik | printed out my own copy of sun tzu, though... that ain't readin', that's an operatin' plan :> |
| 14:04.37 | starseeker | hehe |
| 14:05.06 | starseeker | one of my "most wanted" things for the house is a good couch or chair for reading |
| 14:07.23 | ``Erik | you should have a couple, they're made of porcelain ;> *duck* |
| 14:07.56 | ``Erik | um, there's a supposedly decent place real close, uhhh |
| 14:08.03 | ``Erik | grande furniture or something? I'll find the url |
| 14:08.43 | ``Erik | http://www.simplygrande.com/index.html |
| 14:08.51 | ``Erik | on jarretsville rd |
| 14:09.14 | ``Erik | otherwise, ryan furniture on 40 (near bill batemans) seems like they have a reasonable selection |
| 14:09.49 | CIA-48 | BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r41266 10/brlcad/branches/cmake/src/other/incrTcl/ (itk/CMakeLists.txt itk/generic/itk.h iwidgets/CMakeLists.txt): We apparently require Itk 3.4? Not quite sure where that is coming from, need to check - for now, fake it. |
| 14:10.17 | starseeker | ``Erik: sweet, thanks! |
| 14:10.28 | ``Erik | if you find other places, let me know |
| 14:10.35 | starseeker | will do |
| 14:10.44 | starseeker | supposes Goodwill really doesn't count :-P |
| 14:10.58 | ``Erik | my living room has a single reclining loveseat with a broken side, not company friendly |
| 14:11.17 | ``Erik | last night, I had to sit ont he broken side, so suddenly it's a problem ;> |
| 14:11.17 | starseeker | nods |
| 14:11.22 | starseeker | hehe |
| 14:11.45 | ``Erik | I'd like to fix the old thing, but that'd involve wood and a hammer and time |
| 14:11.59 | ``Erik | and Id' still need an appropriate living room set |
| 14:12.23 | starseeker | crosses fingers... MIGHT be able to complete a BRL-CAD build using only CMake now, although I think I still need some foo on the other tcl packages |
| 14:12.37 | ``Erik | (heh, can I borrow your wife? I have to do furniture shopping O.O *duck* jk) |
| 14:13.21 | ``Erik | due to a recent issue with 'that damn game', I have a little bit of hdd space and can be a test weenie for the cmake build if you need... osX.5 and fbsd8 |
| 14:13.27 | ``Erik | um, crit shoudl have enough space, too |
| 14:13.37 | ``Erik | and on monday, the work machines |
| 14:13.54 | starseeker | sweet - if this test succeeds, it might be worth firing off the builds |
| 14:14.08 | starseeker | osX ought to succeed, fbsd8 who knows |
| 14:14.30 | ``Erik | otherwise, I think a large portion of my day will be lisp related |
| 14:14.50 | starseeker | well how can I interfer with Lisp programming? |
| 14:15.21 | ``Erik | um, fbsd has two ways it can go... it can use the GNU chain, which means if it works on osX and linux, it'll have no issue... then theres' the BSD way, which will be fairly strict and pedantic, but if it works on that, it SHOULD work ANYWHERE (that matters... like... not windows) |
| 14:15.24 | starseeker | that's like interrupting a painter at a masterpiece to paint a wall grey |
| 14:15.42 | starseeker | go strict - no point in half measures |
| 14:15.54 | ``Erik | my lithp will be figurin' how to make my bullet libraries happy in an .app bundles Frameworks/ directory using sbcl with a :executable t and a toplevel listed |
| 14:16.09 | ``Erik | apparently you were unhappy when I did that to the amd machine at work |
| 14:16.19 | ``Erik | you couldn't even operate the damn shell :D |
| 14:16.24 | starseeker | hmm? oh, right |
| 14:16.38 | starseeker | well, you're starting the build, so there's no problem :-P |
| 14:16.47 | ``Erik | but if I'm a tester |
| 14:16.52 | starseeker | since all you need is bits and a keyboard |
| 14:16.52 | ``Erik | I'll approach it like a tester |
| 14:17.04 | ``Erik | and submit an error report because I get "cmake: command not found" |
| 14:17.05 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:17.21 | starseeker | and you'll get the response you deserve |
| 14:17.36 | ``Erik | and then i'll submit a luser bug report |
| 14:17.50 | ``Erik | zomfg, ur shit is teh sux, it can't even build! zomfg, wtf is this cmake crap??? |
| 14:17.53 | ``Erik | :D |
| 14:17.57 | starseeker | fbsd probably needs "licensed users" before they're turned loose on the internet |
| 14:18.07 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:18.12 | ``Erik | I'd actually argue that for linux |
| 14:18.45 | ``Erik | every time there's a stupid argument between fbsd and linux, my old stodgey arse sees fbsd guys just trying to make stuff work and linux being stupid |
| 14:18.52 | starseeker | on the other hand, all but the very worst bsd/linux users will probably be better than your average Windows user |
| 14:19.16 | ``Erik | I mean, fbsd said "oh, library conflicts? you want your own subdir? sure, that's cool, just make a reasonable link into the pathed bin dir so people don't get confused, and a msg would be nice, too" |
| 14:19.21 | ``Erik | gentoo, however... how many years? |
| 14:19.41 | starseeker | hey, that would solve the national debt! Make computer users get a "license to surf" like they get a license to drive |
| 14:19.56 | starseeker | this country is so addicted they could charge almost anything |
| 14:20.02 | ``Erik | I think I'd vote for a license to breed before a license to surf |
| 14:20.36 | louipc | does windows have a decent package manager yet? |
| 14:20.59 | ``Erik | no... nsis does some... microsoft actually released something undder a decent license that might be worth investigating |
| 14:21.10 | starseeker | wix? |
| 14:21.14 | ``Erik | yeh, that's it |
| 14:21.32 | starseeker | is waiting for the CMake support for Wix to go mainstream... drool... |
| 14:21.34 | ``Erik | they released it under an ass 'microsoft community license' or soemthing, but then re-licensed under an OSI license iirc |
| 14:22.12 | starseeker | yeah, it's kinda freaky - there are a few instances of honest to goodness open source from Microsoft these days |
| 14:22.18 | starseeker | F# was another one, IIRC |
| 14:22.34 | louipc | I guess it's making more business sense |
| 14:22.40 | ``Erik | (knowing a couple guys who work for ms... the tech guys actually are smart and want to do good.. but they gotta go through marketing and legal... and, well, ... yeah...) |
| 14:22.54 | starseeker | yeah, I've heard that too |
| 14:23.11 | louipc | they should start their own companies |
| 14:23.15 | ``Erik | most do |
| 14:23.16 | starseeker | Microsoft Research puts out a lot of awesome stuff, but that apparently doesn't help the "world domination" agenda much |
| 14:23.34 | ``Erik | but ms is a nice place to stay for a couple years for a fat resume bullet and stock options |
| 14:23.45 | ``Erik | oh yeah, ms research is effin' awesome |
| 14:23.53 | ``Erik | hoppe is a god in our field |
| 14:26.22 | starseeker | Wooooot! Build completed. Still needs one friggin huge amount of cleanup, and I need to figure out what itk 3.4 is and why we need it (3.3 is the last release they have on the website) but making real progress! |
| 14:26.48 | ``Erik | (is cmake on crit?) |
| 14:27.15 | starseeker | if it is, I think it hung when I tried it |
| 14:27.28 | starseeker | not in my path currently |
| 14:27.30 | ``Erik | nope... installing now |
| 14:27.44 | ``Erik | building... |
| 14:28.16 | ``Erik | you might be thinking a work machine with an nfs mount to a server that is just... plain wrong... y'know, like trying to run an nfs server on linux ;> |
| 14:28.32 | starseeker | oh yeah :-) |
| 14:28.40 | starseeker | shudders in memory |
| 14:28.43 | ``Erik | sure wishes he had a solaris nfs server *cough* *duck* |
| 14:29.18 | ``Erik | (I imagine I'll pay for that later) |
| 14:29.55 | ``Erik | anyways, I think my library issue isn't actually with lisp, but with mac |
| 14:30.26 | ``Erik | using the dyld stuff instead of straight elf, rpath info is... handled... oddly... |
| 14:30.38 | ``Erik | @executable_path is a complete directory, for example |
| 14:30.49 | starseeker | ah yeah, mac is funny that way |
| 14:30.52 | ``Erik | and my bullet libraries are striaght up plain dumb elf, so things go weird |
| 14:31.07 | starseeker | recalls reading something about that when he was setting up that part of CMake |
| 14:31.16 | starseeker | (thank you plplot guys for finding something that worked...) |
| 14:31.21 | ``Erik | <-- ponders rigging up a buclet sub to hard link the bullet .a files into the buclet .dylib |
| 14:31.47 | starseeker | <-- ponders food |
| 14:32.03 | ``Erik | <-- patiently waits to be served brunch O:-) |
| 14:32.28 | starseeker | is that what you call being pelted with catfood? :-P |
| 14:33.15 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:33.32 | ``Erik | buddy has started growling during the initial fooding :/ annoying me |
| 14:34.14 | starseeker | oh, that's easy - if he growls, take the food away |
| 14:34.28 | ``Erik | the first time, I split the wet food up into two and seperated them |
| 14:34.34 | starseeker | he's the smart one, he should get the drift |
| 14:34.36 | ``Erik | now I just say "buddy!" and he stops |
| 14:34.40 | starseeker | heh |
| 14:34.49 | starseeker | that's one scary cat dude |
| 14:34.57 | ``Erik | ? |
| 14:35.06 | starseeker | he's gonna start selling your stuff on the internet for catfood at this rate |
| 14:35.10 | starseeker | smart bugger |
| 14:35.10 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:35.32 | ``Erik | yesterday while waiting for my friend, he got on the chair behind me and put his paws on my shoulder, it was a bit... odd? |
| 14:35.48 | ``Erik | shoulderS, one on each sid |
| 14:36.01 | starseeker | huh. probably just hanging out |
| 14:36.19 | ``Erik | yeah, it was attention and a comfortable position I guess, but a bit.. discerning |
| 14:36.30 | starseeker | yeah, I'll bet |
| 14:36.47 | starseeker | could be worse - he could have decided to hang out ON your head |
| 14:37.03 | ``Erik | well, he starting kneeding my hair |
| 14:37.12 | starseeker | ah, that sucks |
| 14:37.24 | ``Erik | didn't hit skin *shrug* |
| 14:37.41 | ``Erik | aanyways, I lock all my laptop screens at home |
| 14:37.47 | starseeker | heh |
| 14:37.56 | ``Erik | (cats walk on keyboards) |
| 14:38.21 | ``Erik | (plus robbery paranoia) |
| 14:38.39 | starseeker | (could program it so that if keys are pressed in a way that suggests cat walking on it, play a loud buzz :-P |
| 14:39.15 | ``Erik | I really want to get some of those, uh, time triggered stink dispensers with the electric spritzer |
| 14:39.26 | ``Erik | gut the timer and wire it to a motion sensor and fill it with water |
| 14:39.33 | starseeker | <snort> short of grabbing the whole machine, I doubt your average robber is gonna know what the heck to do with your setup |
| 14:39.34 | ``Erik | and drop those where I think cats should not be |
| 14:39.57 | ``Erik | the data far outvalues the equipment |
| 14:40.01 | starseeker | hehe - that sounds like a money maker |
| 14:42.09 | ``Erik | ohyeh, I got sent a new model of an m82 that I promised to load up in the engine and make screenshots of, better do that O.o |
| 14:45.33 | ``Erik | huh, msnbc indefinitely suspended keith olbermann because he made private unpublicisized contributions to democratic candidates... |
| 14:47.31 | ``Erik | (how awesome would it be if someone dug up records on the msnbc corporate donations and demanded execs step down?) |
| 14:47.52 | starseeker | sounds like a job for a hacker ;-) |
| 14:48.16 | ``Erik | I almost said something stupid |
| 14:48.24 | ``Erik | I was going to say that the records should be public by law |
| 14:48.43 | ``Erik | (and I don't see what writing good code has to do with this) |
| 14:49.32 | ``Erik | it might be an interesting episode where some technologically capable person is forced to break the letter of the law to uphold the spirit of the law, yes, that might be interesting :) |
| 14:49.42 | starseeker | simple - take all public financial information (whatever that may be - corporate earnings statements, tax records, whatever) and process it - look for where the money goes |
| 14:50.12 | ``Erik | that'd be a lot of supercomputer time to sort and analyze all those games |
| 14:50.39 | starseeker | given the stated spending results on adds, it should boil down pretty quickly into a small set of possibilities who have income enough and expenditures enough to cover it |
| 14:50.58 | ``Erik | but this dude is suspended for pocket change |
| 14:51.01 | starseeker | might be a good job for a seti style setup |
| 14:51.15 | ``Erik | he gave 2400 to one candidate, and roughly the same to 2 others |
| 14:51.19 | starseeker | ``Erik: yeah, he was suspended for violation of corporate policy, not the law |
| 14:51.28 | starseeker | kinda like that NPR thing a while back |
| 14:51.37 | ``Erik | 2400*3 ~= 7199.883 according to my intel based calculator |
| 14:52.13 | ``Erik | hm, the bits I read made a point to say that he did not state it on any televised thing until he was directly asked about it |
| 14:52.52 | starseeker | yeah, but if it does come out (like it has) it weakens the network by making it look less impartial |
| 14:52.52 | ``Erik | it was private until he was explicitely questioned about it, and then he told the truth... that's what I read, d'no the details |
| 14:53.06 | ``Erik | I'd kinda argue the opposite |
| 14:53.24 | ``Erik | it weakens the network that a journalist was open and honest when questioned? |
| 14:53.53 | starseeker | in principle, I guess analysts aren't supposed to do ANYTHING that might consititue an admission of bias |
| 14:54.03 | starseeker | or even preference |
| 14:54.15 | ``Erik | there's a difference between private and professional, though |
| 14:54.28 | starseeker | kinda like how companies get uptight about Facebook crap due to company employees even when it's on their own time |
| 14:54.47 | ``Erik | yeh, if they're not leaking fouo grade info, that's just fucktarded |
| 14:54.47 | starseeker | that's a nice thought, but in practice unfortunately it's somewhat blurred |
| 14:55.23 | ``Erik | and when hp went and did the espionage shit, well, that was just far enough down tha tslippery slope that people said "WHOA, that is fucked up, lets not go there" |
| 14:55.34 | starseeker | company exec gets wasted and does stupid stuff, gets it posted, it reflects on the company even if it was in "off time" |
| 14:55.56 | ``Erik | <-- shows off the pics of our bosses bosses boss wearing a pink feather boa and dnacing on tables *cougH* |
| 14:56.11 | starseeker | winces |
| 14:56.28 | starseeker | ah, good - that knocked down my appetite far enough for it to be safe for me to eat lunch :-) |
| 14:56.30 | louipc | what's dnacing? exchanging dna? |
| 14:56.44 | ``Erik | I'd argue that saying we need to be careful about that kinda representation at that level is counterproductive |
| 14:57.25 | ``Erik | if it's a touchy subject and you refuse to laugh and be cool with it, you're making it more of a touchy subject |
| 14:58.04 | ``Erik | I effin' adore when a black comedian makes a joke about black people and then rips on the audience because no white people laughed, I think that's a deep social commentary :) |
| 14:58.15 | starseeker | welcome to America, a "Chistian nation founded on Christian principles" or some such (cept for the whole forgiveness and love thy neighbour bits) |
| 14:58.28 | ``Erik | or the uncomfortable silence at a good gay joke that the gay folk love |
| 14:59.00 | ``Erik | heh |
| 14:59.09 | ``Erik | I'm fighting that revionistic history :D |
| 14:59.14 | ``Erik | revisionistic |
| 15:00.02 | ``Erik | we have to be able to accept and laugh at ourselves, and the more people we laugh at, the more ourselves there are |
| 15:00.07 | ``Erik | that's my thinkin', anways |
| 15:00.21 | starseeker | heads to lunch with a quote he got from one of Issac Asimov's books "Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain" |
| 15:00.39 | ``Erik | hasta la pasta, mi homoner |
| 15:01.25 | starseeker | (should note I don't necessarily agree with it, but it does give a nice feel for the magnitude of the task) |
| 15:01.59 | ``Erik | einstein said that the universe and human stupidity are both inifinite, and he's not so sure about the universe |
| 15:02.09 | ``Erik | he had some clever quips |
| 15:47.29 | brlcad | I've thought about putting together a pay-for CD set similar to freebsd distro with pre-compiled versions for various platforms included, for those that want the "hard copy" |
| 15:47.37 | brlcad | small fee to cover costs and time |
| 15:48.06 | ``Erik | a lot of the world pays per mb or whatever |
| 15:50.17 | ``Erik | the 'constraints mean finish libpc' thing, I'm not sure I agree... I can see {bullet|ode|whatever} integration being a quick better solution for that, and handling the draping issue down the road |
| 15:55.33 | brlcad | starseeker: I got my main recliner chair from arhaus, quite awesome if I do say so myself -- perfect for reading and coding |
| 15:55.54 | ``Erik | where is arhaus? |
| 15:56.11 | brlcad | they have a pretty price tag but they often have floor models in perfect shape that are half price |
| 15:57.38 | ``Erik | s exeter in bmore is the nearest? |
| 15:57.50 | brlcad | there's a few around the area -- one down in harbor east (just west of fells point), one in VA |
| 15:58.14 | brlcad | http://www.arhaus.com/Stores.aspx |
| 15:58.22 | ``Erik | I see one on s exeter and one down in annapolis |
| 15:58.41 | ``Erik | the finder there failed, my adblock and script mgmt stuff may be confusing things |
| 15:59.01 | brlcad | fwiw, libpc and ode do very different things |
| 15:59.28 | ``Erik | yeah, and I was under the impression that the jtapic need was way more ode/bullet than libpc |
| 15:59.46 | brlcad | both, the ode/bullet stuff is 3rd year |
| 16:00.14 | ``Erik | hm, have you run the bullet constraint demo yet? |
| 16:00.17 | brlcad | they're basically helping us get infrastructure in place that helps a lot of things |
| 16:00.31 | brlcad | yeah, I have |
| 16:00.44 | ``Erik | I think THAT is what kermit is looking for in the end |
| 16:01.02 | brlcad | that's one of *many* things he's looking for in the end, but yes |
| 16:01.04 | ``Erik | he wants the ragdoll "put a hand on a steering wheel, the joints move 'right'" |
| 16:01.09 | brlcad | sure |
| 16:01.16 | brlcad | that's 3rd year stuff |
| 16:01.21 | ``Erik | I've bugged ed about having a meeting to hash it out |
| 16:01.57 | brlcad | they're not the same task -- libpc is more about the 'p' than the 'c' |
| 16:02.02 | ``Erik | I think I may have surprise issues with dave this year.. and steph came in and said "oh yeah, those 5 reports you're doing? add 4 more." |
| 16:02.05 | ``Erik | ok |
| 16:02.24 | brlcad | the constraint aspect is merely a brl-cad object representing the constraint, which we need regardless of ode/bullet |
| 16:02.42 | ``Erik | I don't understand, then. we need to talk shop some at some point if I'm going to accept what I signed up for |
| 16:03.12 | brlcad | the ability to store parameters and calculate basic equations and relationships is where parameterization comes into play and there's no dynamics or gravity or connectivity involved with that |
| 16:03.29 | ``Erik | so basically a prim that holds strings |
| 16:03.33 | brlcad | i was actually entirely planning on using bullet or ode for the rigging |
| 16:03.41 | brlcad | basically |
| 16:03.48 | brlcad | a little more to it than that :) |
| 16:03.53 | brlcad | but not much more |
| 16:03.58 | ``Erik | there always is |
| 16:04.29 | ``Erik | I told ed that I'm on it, it's written into my objectives and signed up the chain... I just wanna know what I'm committed to, y'know? |
| 16:04.32 | brlcad | parameters gets us one step closer to having parametric geometry |
| 16:04.42 | brlcad | where your sphere's radius is actually not a value |
| 16:05.05 | ``Erik | this smells like a whiteboard conversation |
| 16:05.08 | brlcad | if sure |
| 16:05.45 | brlcad | so yeah, this first year stuff isn't strictly needed in order to do that 3rd year rigging stuff he wants |
| 16:05.55 | brlcad | but brl-cad needs it and he's willing to support the improvements |
| 16:06.13 | brlcad | and it fit in the timeline AND will still benefit his needs |
| 16:06.19 | brlcad | so it's a win win |
| 16:06.20 | ``Erik | kermit is willing to throw money and say "do good stuff" I think... but he has to report up, and we have to help him do that |
| 16:06.53 | brlcad | right, this is exactly part of that "do good stuff", when one of the specific goals is far out in the third year |
| 16:07.02 | ``Erik | and I have the orthogenal constraint of the gubmint obj/acc cycle, so I have to figure how to match those and make everyone happy |
| 16:07.25 | brlcad | from an architecture design, libpc gives us a clean framework for defining primitive parameters |
| 16:08.27 | brlcad | so the basic structs and functions that let something like tgc say that it has a position, radius1, radius2, vect1, and vect2 parameters |
| 16:08.32 | ``Erik | I will... have to look more.. libpc... he did a lot of work, but it kinda gives me a feeling of, um, ... c++/java style object thinking? archicture astronaut? moar objects, less thinking!#~!@ |
| 16:08.44 | brlcad | so then the GUI can automatically present info for each object with the *object* describing itself |
| 16:08.51 | brlcad | not way up in mged/archer like it is now |
| 16:08.56 | ``Erik | likes the MUVES-3 feeling, frankly, but in c++, not java |
| 16:09.10 | ``Erik | and I'm a very objc/smalltalk oriented feller, so the smell hurts |
| 16:09.13 | brlcad | and moreover, the primitive being able to say what's a valid value for that parameter since there are some funky requirements for some primitives |
| 16:09.52 | ``Erik | so we should sit down and jabber in person at some point |
| 16:10.00 | brlcad | I think anything c++ just smells to you whether it's good or not :P |
| 16:10.37 | ``Erik | frankly, if I were to take libpc... it'd probably end up C and I'd consider it a win if we replace our ginormous boost dir with a couple tiny lex and yacc dirs |
| 16:11.05 | ``Erik | I was a huge c++ advocate for a long time.. I learned the hard way that it's applicable where it's applicable and a hinderance everywhere else |
| 16:11.32 | brlcad | I think that'd be a huge waste of effort throwing away all the time invested already, considering libpc is hooked in and works now |
| 16:11.42 | ``Erik | does it? |
| 16:11.55 | brlcad | sure, there are even demo files |
| 16:12.07 | ``Erik | *point* I said look at, not dismiss |
| 16:12.17 | ``Erik | I just have low expectations |
| 16:13.22 | ``Erik | I'm not sure the notion of libpc benefits the jtapic issue ... at all... not discouting, but *shrug* |
| 16:13.27 | ``Erik | that's all'z I'm saying |
| 16:13.27 | brlcad | there are undoubtedly some constraint evaluation problems, because nobody has solved that for arbitrary equations (except mathematica) .. but that doesn't affect us for how it's being used |
| 16:13.56 | brlcad | you are just a fountain of FUD |
| 16:14.13 | brlcad | amazing :) |
| 16:14.28 | ``Erik | I'd hope I'm somewhere inbetween the fud factory and the hopeless idealist factory, actually |
| 16:14.36 | ``Erik | pragmatacism is my goal here |
| 16:14.39 | brlcad | find something specific |
| 16:14.54 | ``Erik | well, that's exactly what I'm saying |
| 16:14.57 | brlcad | if it ain't fixable, then we can refactor |
| 16:15.01 | ``Erik | I don't know what jtapic wants |
| 16:15.07 | brlcad | that's not what you're saying exactly, but maybe what you meant |
| 16:15.09 | ``Erik | so I'm not willing to say that libpc is the answer |
| 16:15.15 | ``Erik | that's all... |
| 16:15.32 | brlcad | libpc was (by definition) intended to be the answer |
| 16:15.37 | brlcad | so if it's not the answer, then it's not libpc |
| 16:15.52 | brlcad | also doesn't mean libpc can't change or get fixed if there are issues |
| 16:16.19 | brlcad | it was merely the implementation detail behind the DB objects representing parameters and constraint objects |
| 16:16.31 | brlcad | ala openNURBS behind our brep object |
| 16:16.41 | ``Erik | I may have a wrong impression of libpc, as well.. my stance is that I want to talk to a couple key people before stamping an approved "thou shalt" plan stamp |
| 16:18.06 | ``Erik | when ya get into customers of customers of customers situations.. it's risky, we can very easily end up looking like asshats cuz we delivered B when they thought they asked for A |
| 16:18.40 | ``Erik | whcih can be 1 bit difference, but it's still a fail in the eyes of the money holders... |
| 16:19.05 | brlcad | well so far everyone has been on board (except your recent comments), so your the only one injecting risk by proposing drastic direction changes |
| 16:19.40 | brlcad | this is really a whiteboard conversation to go over parameters first, though |
| 16:20.08 | ``Erik | don't think I agree with that 'everyone on board' statement.. not knowing enough to argue is not agreeing |
| 16:20.13 | ``Erik | *shrug* |
| 16:20.28 | ``Erik | I think we need more info from kermit before we commit, taht's all I'm arguing |
| 16:20.54 | brlcad | we're already committed, the how is still up to us |
| 16:21.10 | ``Erik | well, on the gov't side, that 'how' is being committed to signed record last week |
| 16:21.37 | ``Erik | with grading in a year based on it, and that's not terribly comfortable... that was richards beef |
| 16:21.43 | brlcad | this isn't a conversation for here |
| 16:21.49 | ``Erik | yes, it's a whiteboard conversation |
| 16:22.35 | brlcad | richard is pure FUD, and almost entirely F |
| 16:22.56 | ``Erik | we'll talk about it during the week :) |
| 16:23.08 | brlcad | and his perrogative, and the least educated on this domain of all, so irrelevant to the task imnsho |
| 16:23.56 | ``Erik | when'll you be in and not stomped commiting to the solaris servers? sometime monday? tuesday? |
| 16:24.53 | ``Erik | manana? |
| 16:24.54 | brlcad | people who don't know how things fit into the big picture really shouldn't be designing or architecting unless failures and learning curves are acceptible, we have a lot of big picture tasks that several development efforts address |
| 16:27.31 | ``Erik | reck'ns he's going to tkae some time to big picture his house a little bit cleaner |
| 18:50.34 | *** join/#brlcad stevegt_ (~stevegt@c-69-181-134-76.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) | |
| 20:11.07 | *** join/#brlcad 30BAAEXLJ (~stevegt@cislunar.TerraLuna.Org) | |
| 22:46.11 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@64-136-219-55.dyn.everestkc.net) | |
| 22:46.11 | *** join/#brlcad R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) | |
| 22:54.50 | starseeker | Weird - archer does this on my gentoo box when trying to expand a tree in the new file browser: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116323 |
| 22:56.42 | starseeker | tries a regular build to see if this is CMake specific |
