IRC log for #brlcad on 20110324

00:11.20 bhinesley what handles the main mged exit "X" GUI button?
00:13.33 bhinesley is done grepping :)
00:13.58 starseeker heh - you found it?
00:14.10 bhinesley no, I've been looking for a while
00:14.21 bhinesley I figured it was time to ask
00:14.52 starseeker IIRC that involves either signal handling or Tk bindings
00:15.22 starseeker take a look at the exit or quit commands
00:15.55 bhinesley yeah, that's what I've been doing. That, and the tcl files
00:16.17 starseeker I'll have to ask our expert tomorrow - I confess I don't know the details of that right offhand
00:16.40 starseeker Tcl/Tk is kind of annoying in that respect - debugging usually involves lots of print statements
00:17.04 starseeker most of the debuggers I know about are commercial :-(
00:17.47 starseeker The only open source one I know of is http://www.compassis.com/ramdebugger/
00:18.00 starseeker and I've never actually gotten it working with MGED or Archer
00:18.10 starseeker ('course I didn't try real hard)
00:20.37 starseeker bhinesley: oh, I'll bet this is it - look for instances of WM_DELETE_WINDOW
00:21.02 bhinesley I have been
00:21.33 starseeker http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TkCmd/wm.htm
00:21.50 bhinesley I guess I'll pursue that a little further
00:21.58 starseeker the details of the window distruction are handled by Tk, IIRC
00:22.44 starseeker the "X" button is actually the responsibility of the window manager
00:23.17 starseeker so when you click on that "X", a WM_DELETE_WINDOW event (or something similar) is generated
00:23.57 starseeker supposes if he's suggesting Tcl/Tk projects he should make another stab at figuring out how to hook up RamDebugger...
00:24.35 starseeker bhinesley: are you running into problems with closing windows?
00:25.26 bhinesley well, I was trying to work on a bug
00:25.37 starseeker ah, very good :-)
00:25.40 starseeker which bug?
00:26.42 bhinesley I believe these two may be related, and not specific to Windows as it appears:
00:26.44 bhinesley https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2278072&group_id=105292&atid=640802
00:26.44 bhinesley https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1961127&group_id=105292&atid=640802
00:28.25 starseeker bhinesley: note that at least the second one reports using a VERY old version of BRL-CAD, so it might be worth trying to reproduce the problem first
00:28.59 bhinesley I am experiencing a similar problem in Fedora
00:29.07 starseeker ah, really!
00:29.12 bhinesley actually... I've tested it in windows, too
00:29.21 starseeker very good
00:29.53 starseeker brlcad may have more insight on how all that's wired together
00:30.41 starseeker bhinesley: a possible suggestion would be to try to simplify the problem down - if you create a tk window displaying a png file (say) and close it, does it have the same problem?
00:30.56 starseeker that might indicate a Tk issue
00:31.33 bhinesley hmm, okay, I will try that in a little bit If I cannot isolate it to one of the WM_DELETE_WINDOW's
00:32.15 starseeker another question is is it Tk specific?
00:32.20 bhinesley the code for the 'q', 'quit', and 'exit' commands works properly
00:32.37 bhinesley so does file-> exit (oddly)
00:32.53 starseeker so one possibility is to make sure the WM_DELETE_WINDOW calls are triggering the same logic
00:33.05 starseeker if you want to try without Tk, do mged -c
00:33.10 starseeker then pick nu
00:33.17 starseeker non-graphical mged ;-)
00:33.58 starseeker do that in one terminal, close the terminal without quitting, the check the status of the file from a different terminal
00:34.41 brlcad bhinesley: which platform are you on?
00:34.59 brlcad ah, fedora .. just catching up
00:35.10 bhinesley :) hello
00:35.37 brlcad yeah, the issue is cross platform -- I think our code that used to pick up with window-close event from tk-land is no longer being handled or at least no longer being handled sufficiently, so mged doesn't shut down
00:37.27 brlcad lets see if I can get this right -- it's supposed to close the application if the graphics window is closed, but keep mged running if only the command window is closed
00:38.06 starseeker blinks - really? is there a way to start up a new command window from the GUI?
00:38.28 brlcad I'm not real keen on that behavior frankly, so it's fair game to change -- I think it should either close both windows if you close either, or not shut down mged until both windows are closed regardless of which is closed first
00:38.59 brlcad yeah, it would make total sense the other way around since you can keep reattaching new graphics windows
00:39.17 brlcad I think the old reasoning was that you'd shut down the command window and just end up with a pure viewer
00:39.41 starseeker votes for the other way
00:39.52 brlcad that's fine, but closing the graphics window shouldn't close the command window..
00:39.55 starseeker the minimize button is a powerful tool
00:39.59 bhinesley if closing the command window closes the graphics window, then perhaps the command window should just be modal, and only allow closing from the graphics window
00:40.18 bhinesley wait, closing the graphics window should leave the command window up?
00:40.39 starseeker that would be my vote. you can launch multiple graphics windows from the command prompt
00:40.56 bhinesley hm okay, sounds backwards to me, but I'm from AutoCAD-world
00:41.12 starseeker we're a trifle command line centric :-P
00:41.16 bhinesley yeah
00:41.43 brlcad depends if we're talking about what it "should" do, what it's "supposed" to do, or what it "presently" does? :)
00:42.19 starseeker Archer is currently organized more around the traditional desktop app paradigm, but we hadn't gotten to addressing desired behavior there with respect to this question
00:43.19 bhinesley well the Archer command window is embedded
00:43.28 brlcad if we ignore "presently" and "supposed" behavior, what I'd want it to do is not have either the graphics window or command window close button quit the application unless it's the last window open
00:43.30 starseeker bhinesley: you can detach it :-)
00:43.34 bhinesley ah I see now :)
00:44.14 bhinesley brlcad: ok
00:44.17 starseeker brlcad: yeah, I was thinking that too - as long as you can launch display managers from the command prompt, and command prompts from the display, you're fully up as long as you have a window
00:44.21 bhinesley I have to leave guys, I'll bbl
00:44.27 bhinesley thanks, bye
00:44.30 starseeker bhinesley: bye!
00:44.37 brlcad bhinesley: something to keep in mind while testing is you can "attach X" as many times as you like from the command window, you can also run mged -c to get classic mode and then run "gui" to start up the tcl/tk gui
00:45.23 starseeker realizes he has to get up at 5am and heads home...
00:45.32 brlcad wee
00:45.48 brlcad encounters compilation success!
00:57.04 brlcad pretty impressive mesh manipulation tool http://www.meshmixer.com/
01:02.53 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2622 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: de-emphasize an idea of their own. want integrated code
01:09.03 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2623 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add programming languages potentially involved
01:09.56 *** join/#brlcad crazy_imp (~mj@a89-183-78-5.net-htp.de)
03:27.15 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2624 10/wiki/OGRE_Display_Manager: combine ogre and qt into the same topic
03:27.24 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Qt Display Manager]]": merged in with the ogre idea
03:27.50 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[OGRE Display Manager]] moved to [[Cross Platform Display Manager]]: rename post-merge
03:28.13 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2627 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: merged
03:29.12 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Other Cross Platform Framebuffer]] moved to [[Cross Platform Framebuffer]]: simplify
03:36.46 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2630 10/wiki/Cross_Platform_Framebuffer: merge in qt
03:37.06 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[Qt Framebuffer]]": no longer needed, merged with the more general cross-platform tasker
03:37.39 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2631 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: merged framebuffer tasks, only need one
03:44.24 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2632 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: recategorize the gui projects
03:48.44 *** join/#brlcad Ralith (~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net)
04:09.56 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Cross Platform Display Manager]] moved to [[New Cross-Platform 3D Display Manager]]
04:10.13 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Cross Platform Framebuffer]] moved to [[New Cross Platform 2D Framebuffer]]
04:10.53 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[New Cross Platform 2D Framebuffer]] moved to [[New Cross-Platform 2D Framebuffer]]
04:12.33 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2639 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: make the task descriptions sub-context information
04:22.28 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:BRL-CAD Priorities.png]]": Overview of our project scope, vision, mission, and main priorities.
04:28.25 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2641 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: link in project priorities image
04:43.42 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2642 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: bump up nurbs, priority
06:16.43 bhinesley brlcad: is the project idea labeled "MGED to Archer Command Migration" considered a priority?
06:25.26 *** join/#brlcad packrat (~packrator@99-67-225-40.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net)
06:47.23 bhinesley I'm leaning towards the MGED Sketch Editor Migration and Enhancement project, as suggested by starseeker
06:54.56 *** join/#brlcad bhinesley (~bhinesley@99.125.83.101)
07:19.50 bhinesley is there a mentor assigned to the MGED Sketch Editor Migration and Enhancement project?
08:04.08 *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@193.254.217.44)
08:57.40 *** join/#brlcad piksi (piksi@83.145.207.200)
09:55.40 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 0399.125.83.101 07http://brlcad.org * r2643 10/wiki/User:Bhinesley: First profile post
11:26.35 dloman Mernin all
11:30.14 dloman bah, blast it all! I can't 'apply' to be a mentor cause their application process is 'down' in preps for the launch of their new GUI later this week. :/
11:40.40 *** part/#brlcad cjdevlin (~devlin@d118-75-70-176.try.wideopenwest.com)
12:22.03 brlcad dloman: it's been that way since monday
12:23.25 brlcad bhinesley: note that I would consider that project "hard" so you should define lots of small milestones
12:24.14 brlcad we generally perform group mentoring so that you're not reliant upon getting answers from any one mentor
12:24.34 brlcad bhinesley: as the current code is all Tcl and archer is predominantly Tcl, I hope you like Tcl :)
12:25.40 brlcad that said, the three people most likely able to help you or get answers to your questions are going to be myself, starseeker, and "bob" who you'll probably only be able to talk to via e-mail (but is the foremost knowledgeable on all things Tcl)
12:28.17 brlcad bhinesley: ah, missed your first question -- I would consider the command migration higher priority than sketch editing
12:28.51 brlcad intends to spend a lot more time hashing out more ideas onto the ideas list today
12:39.31 dloman brlcad: can the project lead send invites? ...or is that disabled also?
12:42.08 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2644 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager:
12:43.56 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2645 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: put the ideas into a table for more concise readability
12:48.48 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r43949 10/geomcore/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Verbage change: 'Data' to 'Path' ...makes more better cents.
12:52.20 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2646 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: impact
12:52.46 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2647 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: tablify
12:54.09 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2648 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: Undo revision 2647 by [[Special:Contributions/Sean|Sean]] ([[User talk:Sean|Talk]])
12:55.43 dloman brlcad: are there any file IO functions in the brlcad libs for reading/writing plain ol files?
12:59.31 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2649 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: tablify redux
13:04.18 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2650 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager:
13:05.36 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2651 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Graphical User Interface (GUI) Projects */
13:05.56 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2652 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_2D_Framebuffer: new layout
13:08.34 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2653 10/wiki/MGED_to_Archer_Command_Migration: new layout
13:10.07 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2654 10/wiki/MGED_Sketch_Editor_Migration_and_Enhancement: new layout
13:11.42 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2655 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager: ogre/qt as refs
13:12.26 brlcad dloman: also disabled
13:13.35 brlcad dloman: if they're really "plain", then libc would be the most appropriate
13:14.14 brlcad otherwise we have routines to read lines from files and map files to memory buffers that are commonly used
13:16.48 brlcad routines for creating temp files, locating files, logging to a file, reading/writing strings to files
13:17.31 brlcad what are you trying to do?
13:19.38 dloman simple check if a directory exists
13:19.54 dloman wanted to use a brlcad way to do it since there's a larger chance it will be cross platform ;)
13:20.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2656 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: bgcolor
13:21.06 *** join/#brlcad Elrohir (~kvirc@p5B14BA4E.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:23.14 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2657 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: smaller priorites link, push to top
13:28.45 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2658 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager: medium
13:30.43 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2659 10/wiki/NURBS_Intersections: new layout, add references
13:32.47 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2660 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: kiss
13:34.50 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2661 10/wiki/NURBS_Tessellation: new layout, add references
13:35.37 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2662 10/wiki/NURBS_Tessellation: redundant to repeat title
13:36.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2663 10/wiki/NURBS_Intersections: dry
13:36.23 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2664 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager: dry
13:38.01 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2665 10/wiki/CSG_to_NURBS_conversion: refs
13:41.56 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2666 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_3D_Display_Manager: dry
13:42.08 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2667 10/wiki/NURBS_Intersections: dry
13:42.19 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2668 10/wiki/NURBS_Tessellation: dry
13:43.59 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2669 10/wiki/Plate_Mode_NURBS_raytracing: code refs
13:46.33 brlcad dloman: search include/bu.h for "directory" .. there are two or three specifically for that
13:49.19 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2670 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: CSG is the operator, not the entity type
13:49.48 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[CSG to NURBS conversion]] moved to [[Implicit to NURBS conversion]]: CSG is an operator, not a type
14:05.11 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2673 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add a code refactoring section, move refactoring tasks up into it
14:05.31 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2674 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_2D_Framebuffer: dry
14:05.53 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2675 10/wiki/MGED_to_Archer_Command_Migration: dry
14:06.09 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2676 10/wiki/MGED_Sketch_Editor_Migration_and_Enhancement: dry
14:08.16 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2677 10/wiki/Ayam_Editor_Feature_Integration: new layout, add refs
14:09.10 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2678 10/wiki/New_Cross-Platform_2D_Framebuffer: consistency
14:10.44 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2679 10/wiki/Analytical_Raytracing_Visualization: new layout, refs
14:13.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2680 10/wiki/Level_of_Detail_Wireframes: new layout, add references
14:14.17 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2681 10/wiki/BoT_Editing: new layout, add references
14:15.52 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2682 10/wiki/NMG_Editing: new layout, add references
14:16.23 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2683 10/wiki/NMG_Editing: /* Requirements */
14:17.31 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2684 10/wiki/Graph_layout_based_geometry_hierarchy_view: new layout, add references
14:18.07 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2685 10/wiki/Graph_layout_based_geometry_hierarchy_view: /* References */
14:29.42 dloman starseeker: http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.developer.usingapi.html#svn.developer.usingapi.urlpath
14:30.20 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2686 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: expand all of the gui projects
14:46.33 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2687 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: expand the rest of the sections with table views, impact, and difficulty
14:48.16 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2688 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: move step up
15:04.21 dloman brlcad: thanks!
15:05.35 bhinesley brlcad: thanks for all of the info and new updates. I will reconsider my project choice in the light of this.
15:08.32 starseeker brlcad: has subversion moved to the Apache license?
15:09.56 starseeker http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/trunk/LICENSE
15:11.01 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2689 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: terse is so much more informative here. combine title with description and reduce to no more than two lines (on my wide screen)
15:12.52 starseeker ah, crap - yep http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/trunk/LICENSE?revision=878444&view=markup
15:14.35 starseeker yeah, this was the old one: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/subversion/trunk/COPYING?revision=875073&view=markup&pathrev=878443
15:16.26 *** join/#brlcad dli (~dli@dsl-173-248-203-45.acanac.net)
15:16.33 dloman ...so are we incompatable with apache?
15:19.06 starseeker http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
15:19.33 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 0399.125.83.101 07http://brlcad.org * r2690 10/wiki/User:Bhinesley: reconsidering project choice
15:21.34 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 0399.125.83.101 07http://brlcad.org * r2691 10/wiki/User:Bhinesley: /* BRL-CAD Project Proposal */ remove superfluous blank line
15:22.19 dloman starseeker: that really reads for people trying to package stuff instde Apache products... not the other way around. :/
15:25.59 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2692 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: another awesome reduction
15:36.46 starseeker dloman: yeah, but it works both ways, unless I'm missing something
15:36.55 starseeker (quite possible)
15:41.29 starseeker brlcad: I don't suppose you have those scripts you used to benchmark breaking up a file and reassembling it from the command line? Those might be a good way to try fossil with just a little tweaking
15:45.32 brlcad using apache isn't a problem because we're not deriving or integrating, no more compatible/incompatible than a proprietary system using an apache product
15:46.22 brlcad now that they've switched from a bsd-like license to apache, that does represent a problem to us in terms of integrating their code into ours and making updates -- has to stay separate or we have to change our license
15:46.29 brlcad we can, however, still use them
15:46.43 brlcad they can't use us is the bigger incompatibility
15:47.03 dloman so... what about the eventual plan to make a FS-G back end?
15:47.19 dloman with the current liscense... isn't that plan now out the window?
15:47.20 starseeker brlcad: I thought we had been avoiding apache licensed stuff to avoid uncertainties about what code moved where...
15:47.24 brlcad that's fine, we just can't bundle their sources together with ours
15:47.52 starseeker so I should take the subversion directory out of geomcore
15:48.26 brlcad if it's the full sources, probably -- should be fine in a separate module with svn:external set up
15:49.04 brlcad source repo isn't a big deal, it's any published/distributed source tarballs where we'd have to be careful and not bundle them together
15:49.22 brlcad and that's more just for perception, not necessarily legal requirement
15:49.39 dloman So, if we put the svn code in a top level module licensed Apache, and make our FS-G code there.... then that's okay?
15:50.03 dloman so long as GS and the FS-G 'products' are distinctly different... even though GS requires the FS-G ?
15:50.21 dloman (Just making sure I understand things....)
15:51.09 brlcad yeah, that can work
15:51.35 brlcad it's really not that big a problem for us because apache is not viral like gpl/lgpl in imposing requirements on code it's combined with
15:52.27 brlcad their license merely applies to their code, so if we ever combined their code with ours, the license terms would conflict (lgpl isn't a superset of apache)
15:53.36 brlcad our lgpl can't apply to their code and their license can't apply to our code
15:53.43 dloman okay then, so if our mythical fs-g module needs to have brlcad libraries as a dependancy... that's okay since the LGPL won't impose any restrictions on the fs-g's Apache license?
15:54.15 brlcad so we can't make a blanket statement if it was bundled into a source tarball to say that "this collective work is lgpl" .. because we can't apply lgpl to their code -- it would merely be two projects with two licenses in one tarball
15:55.05 brlcad it's "okay" in the sense that we can develop that module, make it lgpl, use our libs .. but it could never be integrated into svn proper
15:55.58 dloman I am pretty sure the fs-g would need to be a *modified* version of svn, rather than something that uses svn as a dep
15:56.38 starseeker would tend to agree
15:59.02 brlcad it'd probably make more sense for fs-g to be apache licensed, and merely use brl-cad's libs as an installed but not bundled dependency
15:59.31 brlcad as we'd be deriving from their existing fs-fs or other code anyways
16:00.49 brlcad notes that many of these concerns become moot if we switched to the BSD license :)
16:01.06 dloman 'we' being brlcad code?
16:02.54 brlcad all brl-cad code, yes
16:03.13 brlcad or mit
16:03.19 brlcad or apache 2.0 for the patent grant
16:03.27 brlcad either way, more flexibility
16:03.56 starseeker brlcad: the original motivator for LGPL was to ensure some reciprocity, correct?
16:05.25 brlcad and to abate concerns at the time of any entity forking brl-cad, making extensive valuable modifications, then trying to sell that derived version back to the gov't
16:05.54 brlcad thinks he might have picked up whatever ed has
16:06.01 starseeker doesn't that risk still exist?
16:06.05 starseeker uh-oh
16:07.25 brlcad sure, it still exists
16:07.31 brlcad but it's not nearly as much of a concern any more
16:08.06 starseeker we've established enough momentum now?
16:08.20 brlcad after 7 years open source, I think so
16:08.42 brlcad at worse, the risk is minimized as much as reasonably possible
16:08.51 starseeker nods
16:09.30 brlcad moreover, the benefits of allowing unencumbered use, whether commercial or not, would still benefit the brl-cad open source community and gov't regardless
16:10.12 brlcad even if their changes were never released or integrated, it would be more .g files floating around, brl-cad libraries being used, etc
16:10.18 brlcad anyways, not a problem that needs solving today
16:10.23 starseeker right
16:47.47 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2693 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: more awesome
16:51.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2694 10/wiki/General_Tree_Walker: new layout, add references
16:52.20 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2695 10/wiki/Rework_of_libbu/libbn_to_not_require_Tcl: new layout, add references
16:55.18 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2696 10/wiki/Complete_bu_image/libicv_and_redo_all_pix_tools_to_use_it: new layout, add references
16:55.58 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Complete bu image/libicv and redo all pix tools to use it]] moved to [[Consolidate image processing]]
16:57.09 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2699 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: new name
16:57.50 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2700 10/wiki/Consolidate_image_processing:
17:02.18 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[MGED Sketch Editor Migration and Enhancement]] moved to [[2D Sketch Editor]]
17:04.36 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Analytical Raytracing Visualization]] moved to [[GUI Integration of Analysis Tools]]
17:05.02 starseeker brlcad: wow that looks nice
17:05.09 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r0 10/wiki/Special:Log/move: [[Graph layout based geometry hierarchy view]] moved to [[Visualizing Constructive Solid Geometry (CSG)]]
17:05.27 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2707 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: new names
17:07.53 ``Erik hm, apache license 2.0 is compatible with GPLv3, if that means anything
17:08.09 starseeker ``Erik: yeah, I think it primarily has to do with the patent stuff
17:08.53 starseeker sucky that some projects are LGPL2 only, some are LGPL3 only - makes me appreciate the simplicity of BSD/MIT
17:09.20 starseeker I finally (belatedly) contacted the NURBS++ author, but wasn't able to sell him on BSD
17:11.14 ``Erik the fork risk is probably greatly diminished, there was a core competency migration from the dangerous group O.o :D
17:12.01 starseeker hehe
17:12.31 starseeker 'course, NURBS++ was LGPL2 with the later version clause, so that's somewhat better
17:12.36 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2708 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: another one bites the dust
17:12.38 starseeker s/was/is
17:14.12 starseeker wish I could have found him before the takeover request went through, but only dug up his contact info months later
17:14.22 starseeker oh, well - not like there was much going on with it
17:14.56 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2709 10/wiki/Geometry_Conversion_Library: new layout, add references
17:16.29 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2710 10/wiki/Voxelize: new layout, add references
17:17.47 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r43950 10/geomcore/trunk/src/GS/DataManager.cxx: getData changed to getPath
17:20.42 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2711 10/wiki/IGES_import_improvements:
17:21.50 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2712 10/wiki/STEP_Libraries: new layout, add references
17:22.01 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2713 10/wiki/IGES_import_improvements: ws
17:22.24 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2714 10/wiki/IGES_import_improvements:
17:36.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2715 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: more awesome expansion
17:36.49 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2716 10/wiki/GED_Transactions: new layout, add references
17:37.49 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2717 10/wiki/Add_exec_option_to_search: new layout, add references
17:38.54 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2718 10/wiki/Geometry_Selection_Functionality: new layout, add references
17:40.45 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2719 10/wiki/Geometric_Constraint_Solver: new layout, add references
17:43.38 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2720 10/wiki/Space_Partitioning_for_Tessellation: new layout, add references
17:46.33 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2721 10/wiki/Libsvn_within_Geometry_Database_Format: new layout, add references
17:56.39 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2722 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: final awesome restructure
17:57.43 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2723 10/wiki/Shader_Enhancements: new layout, add references
17:58.36 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2724 10/wiki/Shader_Enhancements: refs
17:59.40 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2725 10/wiki/Material_and_Shader_Objects: new layout, add references
18:01.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2726 10/wiki/NMG_Raytracing_Performance_Improvement: new layout, add references
18:02.25 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2727 10/wiki/Generalized_abstracted_spacial_partitioning_capability: new layout, add references
18:03.59 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2728 10/wiki/High_Dynamic_Range_Support: new layout, add references
18:05.23 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2729 10/wiki/Vector_output_from_raytracing: new layout, add references
18:07.01 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2730 10/wiki/Analysis_Library: new layout, add references
18:08.01 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2731 10/wiki/Analysis_Library: /* References */
18:11.44 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2733 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: overlap tool is geometry processing
18:12.55 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2734 10/wiki/Overlap_tool: new layout, add references
18:13.31 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2735 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: ws
18:25.22 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r43951 10/geomcore/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Move DataManager Initialization over to the DataManager itself.
18:28.59 *** join/#brlcad Stattrav (~Stattrav@117.192.129.170)
18:29.08 *** join/#brlcad Stattrav (~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav)
18:30.12 *** join/#brlcad alex_joni (~alex_joni@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni)
18:40.16 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2736 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add mentors
18:40.50 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2737 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas:
18:40.58 brlcad woot, done
18:42.29 brlcad "the patent thing" is actually what makes it incompat with gpl/lgpl v2, adds a new requirement which those licenses say you can't do
18:42.38 dloman Nice! Im an 'expert modeler' !
18:42.43 dloman nice page btw brlcad !
18:42.52 brlcad also why gpl v2 and v3 are only compat in one direction
18:42.58 brlcad thanks dloman
18:43.21 brlcad starseeker and ``Erik did most of the hard work writing up all those topics
18:44.30 brlcad felt kinda dirty putting 'guru' after NMG, but the poor guy needed something there
18:45.04 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43952 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/main.c:
18:45.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: Start major reworking of our approach to svn - use lower level api. Whole new
18:45.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: learning curve here, so everything that was previously working isn't - got it to
18:45.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: compile, so checkpointing. Also gut all the old svn client code we were using
18:45.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: to avoid license questions - figure out how to use the APIs from scratch with
18:45.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: examples.
18:45.38 brlcad heh
18:46.04 starseeker one step forward, two steps back... sigh
18:46.42 dloman and turn your self around... that's what its all about!
18:47.10 starseeker oh, I'm alredy dizzy
18:47.39 brlcad paula abdul loves you
18:48.31 starseeker aaand another reference sails right over my head... :-P
18:48.57 brlcad heh
18:49.00 brlcad opposites attract!
18:49.13 brlcad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xweiQukBM_k
18:49.25 starseeker safe for work?
18:49.29 brlcad just a song
18:51.09 brlcad ahh, good ol' 80's music videos
18:53.41 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r43953 10/geomcore/trunk/src/GS/testclient/gstestclient.c: start cleaning up and simplying things
18:56.30 ``Erik is there any reason to be pushing strings across the pipe as unicode16 instead of ascii?
18:57.00 starseeker I was doing that because of the definition of the string type on the wiki
18:57.04 starseeker or were you asking dloman ?
18:57.10 ``Erik open question
18:57.20 dloman i down graded them to 1 byte char strings.... last week i think.
18:57.21 ``Erik suspects it's a qstring thing
18:57.38 dloman qstring and java thing
18:57.54 starseeker http://brlcad.org/wiki/GSNet_String
18:58.06 ``Erik java has some dandy unicode16/ascii conversion stuff already in it
18:58.25 dloman starseeker: thats out of date :(
18:59.26 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Dloman 07http://brlcad.org * r2738 10/wiki/GSNet_String:
18:59.26 starseeker oh - are we all agreed on GS, GE and GUI for toplevel modules?
18:59.49 dloman shakes magic 8ball.
18:59.59 dloman .....Sounds good starseeker!
19:00.26 starseeker magic8 ball... haven't seen one of those for many years
19:02.45 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r43954 10/geomcore/trunk/ (include/FileDataSource.h src/GS/FileDataSource.cxx): Stub in init routine for FileDataSource
19:06.23 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03davidloman * r43955 10/rt^3/trunk/include/ (70 files): Dump all the old GS header files. No longer needed here.
19:14.26 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43956 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/main.c: Oh yeah, need to init apr and friends.
19:21.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2739 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Geometry Conversion Projects */
19:25.32 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43957 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/main.c: Somewhat surprisingly, this approach to subdirectory addition works too. Files still aren't right
19:27.27 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2740 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add a couple more STEP tasks
19:28.06 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43958 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/main.c: And we can create empty files.
19:28.45 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2741 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas:
19:35.59 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2742 10/wiki/STEP_exporter: New page: STEP is the current standard for exchange of CAD data between different software packages. BRL-CAD makes use of the NIST STEP Class Libraries code to support its step-g converter, but we ...
19:40.22 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2743 10/wiki/STEP_importer_improvements: New page: STEP is the current standard for exchange of CAD data between different software packages. BRL-CAD makes use of the NIST STEP Class Libraries code to support its step-g converter, but th...
19:42.45 *** join/#brlcad hyarion (c05ben@peppar.cs.umu.se)
20:09.58 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r43959 10/geomcore/trunk/src/GS/testclient/ (CMakeLists.txt gstestclient.c): complete rewrite. (hey, it works)
20:11.59 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2744 10/wiki/Benchmark_Performance_Database: initial benchmark web interface idea
20:17.14 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2745 10/wiki/Materials_Database: New page: BRL-CAD uses simple material properties, presently limited to density, for calculating weights, moments of inertia and other geometric analyses. There is presently no centralized reposito...
20:18.23 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r43960 10/geomcore/trunk/src/GS/testclient/gstestclient.c: cleanup the socket
20:19.19 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2746 10/wiki/Materials_Database:
20:19.55 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2747 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add a couple web tasks with discouraging wording
20:28.02 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2748 10/wiki/Fix_Bugs: initial bugs idea
20:35.12 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03erikgreenwald * r43961 10/geomcore/trunk/src/GS/testclient/gstestclient.c: parse and print response packet
20:37.06 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2749 10/wiki/Code_Reduction: code reduction
20:37.16 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2750 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: add code reduction
20:38.20 brlcad awesome, up to 42 project ideas now -- 47 if you count the other tool projects .. I think that's sufficient now :)
20:38.33 brlcad has the new catch-all ones too
20:39.59 brlcad starseeker: I'd prefer lowercase for top-level modules just for consistency (probably less error-prone for newbies), but not strong preference
20:41.07 brlcad 16 byte strings across the wire will be 50% waste 99.9% of the time :)
20:42.07 brlcad don't know of anyone even attempting to deal with 16-bit stringery at the moment
20:42.23 brlcad maybe catia, but then they're french
21:02.40 starseeker brlcad: sure, lower is fine
21:06.11 starseeker ouch - Apple is now going to avoid Samba because of GPLv3
21:07.40 starseeker brlcad: the dynamic range one... IIRC (and I may not) another point there was to generate output images that fit better into image processing pipelines that make use of HDR
21:08.23 starseeker not that that changes priority or anything, but I think that may have been the envisioned immediate practical consequence
21:08.34 starseeker (HDR displays would be neat though...)
21:08.59 ``Erik or like CMYK or YUV for printing or something
21:46.05 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2751 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: /* Mentors */
21:48.06 brlcad starseeker: the labels aren't really weighted well
21:48.49 brlcad in the big scheme of things with the dozens of other "high" priority high impact topics on there, I think HDR is still *relatively* low impact yet it'd still be useful and cool to have
21:48.54 brlcad immediately useful even
21:49.09 brlcad the description can be reworded, didn't mean to downplay it if it comes off that way
21:49.33 starseeker nah, it's cool
21:49.46 starseeker don't know how much role it will play in submissions anyway
21:49.54 brlcad as for the high/medium/low, I was actually considering a simple two-level instead of three
21:50.24 brlcad HIGH and LOW do sound like they're being discouraged, though, when it's really meant to just emphasize the high ones
21:50.26 starseeker baby-bottle and skull+crossbones? :-P
21:50.33 brlcad heh
21:51.06 brlcad maybe BIG and BIGGER
21:52.04 brlcad ha, winner .. BIG and HUGE
21:55.03 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03Sean 07http://brlcad.org * r2752 10/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas: BIG AND BIGGEREST!
21:58.08 starseeker wangs his head on the wall... why can't I get file content into files??? auugh
22:30.03 *** join/#brlcad dli (~dli@dyn-217-029.wireless.concordia.ca)
22:35.21 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43962 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/main.c: OK, we're getting non-zero sized files now. No way to know if they're anything like correct yet.
23:53.14 CIA-52 BRL-CAD: 03starseeker * r43963 10/geomcore/trunk/tests/svntest/ (CMakeLists.txt main.c): start working out how to reassemble using the lower level api...

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