IRC log for #brlcad on 20121125

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14:04.53 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 53812 (brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/half/half.c): comment the peculiarity I had to research. ensures segment is valid, equiv to >inf || <-inf
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17:56.58 jarray52 expr (2 + 2) gives 4 at the mged prompt. Similarly, expr (2 - 2) gives 0, and expr (2 / 2) gives 1. However, expr (2 * 2) states Error: unbalanced open paren in expression "(2".
17:57.36 jarray52 How does one multiply two numbers?
17:58.08 ``Erik globbing is turned on and * is read as a file matching argument instead of as an expression symbol, you can either turn globbing off or escape the * "expr (2 \* 2)"
17:59.04 jarray52 will \* work even when globbing is turned off? I'm writing an mged script.
18:00.33 ``Erik I'm not sure, one of the tcl weenies might have a good answer... might consider turning off globbing at the beginning of the script just to be sure? (I don't know if there's a scope/state issue doing that)
18:01.11 jarray52 ``Erik: Thanks. That was helpful.
18:01.14 ``Erik I'm sure an answer will pop up if you lurk for a while (might take a day or so, though)
18:01.31 ``Erik or maybe look at other scripts, or just try it :D
18:02.30 jarray52 Are example scripts available somewhere? So far I've only seen the box and logo scripts
18:03.42 ``Erik src/brlcad/tclscripts/ would be where I'd start
18:05.04 ``Erik mged/dbfindtree.tcl saves glob_compat_mode to a var, sets it, runs, then sets it back to var
18:11.14 jarray52 ``Erik: Thanks again.
18:11.51 ``Erik np, good luck!
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18:40.13 brlcad jarray52: set glob_compat_mode 0
18:40.19 brlcad that will turn globbing off in a script
18:41.27 jarray52 brlcad: Is there a problem with leaving the glob_compat_mode set to 1 and using \* wherever multiplication is needed?
18:42.31 brlcad there may be a problem depending on how the script is passed to mged, but it's more of a syntax issue
18:42.56 brlcad it won't look like proper tcl source, especially once you start needing to also escape the other globbing characters like []
18:43.09 brlcad which is the common way to invoke a subexpression in tcl
18:43.51 brlcad puts "The result is [expr 2*2]"
18:45.37 jarray52 brlcad: That is good to know. Thanks.
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19:37.07 jarray52 I created a part using brlcad, and I would like to create g-code for this part. I created a .dxf file using g-dxf, and I was planning on using dxf2gcode to generate gcode. However, the output of g-dxf output 3124 triangles. Will the final g-code be useable?
19:37.45 jarray52 Does anyone have suggestions on generating g-code using brlcad?
19:38.33 brlcad that entirely depends on dxf2gcode
19:39.04 brlcad dxf is a polygonal format, so I'm not sure what the concern is exactly though
19:41.39 jarray52 brlcad: I was concerned that converting to a format that uses triangles will lose information/make the information unuseable. But, if that's the only way to store things in the dxf format, then it is dxf2gcode's task to handle the generation of gcode.
20:54.26 jarray52 brlcad: When I ran g-dxf -i -o part.dxf -p a.g part.c, I got the error message _db_walk_subtree() FAIL on ...
21:05.03 brlcad jarray52: yeah, dxf is a rather limited format in that regard -- it has some support, but I highly double dxf2gcode would handle them any more than we would write them
21:05.57 brlcad whether a FAIL message is significant depends on your hierarchy construction (and whether it's correct) and the object that failed
21:06.22 brlcad best way to check is to run dxf-g and look at the result in mged, see if it's missing anything you care about
21:07.23 brlcad if it is, you can often overcome the failure by changing the geometry that failed in minor ways (so that faces and edges aren't coinciding)
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22:19.12 jarray52 What's the best way to go from brlcad 3D models to engineering drawings and/or file formats that can be submitted for the purpose of manufacturing physical parts?
22:27.42 brlcad jarray52: the best way will be our step exporter, but we're not there yet -- for now, it's the complexities of performing an export conversion
22:28.56 jarray52 brlcad: Once the step exporter is complete, we can create a step file and then submit it to a machine shop?
22:29.04 brlcad yep
22:29.11 brlcad technically most take stl these days too
22:29.20 brlcad it's sort of the lowest common denominator
22:29.28 jarray52 stl seems to be a lossy format, right?
22:29.29 brlcad some *only* take stl
22:30.01 brlcad of course, but that is meaningless for some purposes (like gcode generation)
22:30.13 brlcad you just have to control the tessellation quality (with is hard, but necessary)
22:31.08 jarray52 brlcad: Can gcode generated from stl create parts with small tolerances? Parts such as pistons.
22:32.58 brlcad depends which machine is creating the piston
22:33.15 jarray52 brlcad: Something like a turning center.
22:33.26 brlcad the only way to do that well is with a CAM system that goes *directly* from the parametric form to output "smart" gcode instructions
22:34.16 brlcad the ones that take stl will perform an automatic tool-path conversion, which is but yet another approximation on top of the stl
22:34.58 jarray52 Are there any CAM systems that output "smart" gcode which can use brlcad models as the input?
22:35.09 jarray52 the CAM system can be open source or commercial.
22:35.11 brlcad a turning center is going to want precision measurements, probably drafting instructions so that they can set turning knobs to specific measurements
22:35.34 brlcad there are lots of commercial ones, gibbscam comes to mind
22:35.53 brlcad there are a couple toy open source projects, but nothing to the level of precision a piston would imply
22:36.35 jarray52 what input formats does gibbscam use?
22:37.18 brlcad no idea
22:37.30 brlcad but they're one of the big names
22:37.36 brlcad so it should be "most formats"
22:38.24 jarray52 Does any CAM system take brlcad databases as an input?
22:39.56 brlcad I have heard of a couple commercial CAD systems that implemented support for our format, but not any of the CAM systems
22:40.12 brlcad it'd be unlikely -- best bet is going to be that step exporter
22:40.40 brlcad perhaps g-iges, but I lack faith in it's stability (it's a dying format)
22:41.19 brlcad jarray52: so you see our conundrum and why we need more hands ;)
22:41.54 brlcad that's a gap I've been working on bridging for a long time
22:41.56 jarray52 brlcad: I would like to see brlcad grow into a complete solution.
22:42.05 brlcad ditto
22:42.30 brlcad getting nurbs/brep support was a HUGE piece of that puzzle
22:42.40 brlcad that lets us import and gives us foundation for export
22:43.38 brlcad that's also the same foundation that will give us shaded opengl displays, not just wireframe, not just raytracing
22:44.07 brlcad same foundation giving STABLE export to the polygonal exports without those FAIL messages
22:44.28 brlcad same foundation giving explicit boundaries so we can spit out drafting documents
22:45.37 jarray52 How far is brlcad from producing drafting documents?
22:45.45 jarray52 labeled drafting documents?
22:48.08 brlcad we have about ...
22:48.11 brlcad calculates in head
22:50.50 brlcad there's about 9 weeks of effort needed to spit out a labeled drafting document (with proper infrastructure support and some basic docs)
22:51.32 jarray52 brlcad: Is anyone working on this?
22:53.04 brlcad the problem is that is roughly 4 major tasks to get there (csg->brep, projected bbs, ann objects, output)
22:53.29 brlcad two of those are being worked, so we're getting closer, but nobody specifically working towards that goal
22:54.05 jarray52 brlcad: I was imagining something to draw lines on an rtedge drawing. Is that the wrong approach?
22:54.17 brlcad csg->brep is top priority this year, kind of waiting to see how good a job on the hardest problem
22:54.35 brlcad you could do that now frankly, but yeah completely different approach
22:55.14 jarray52 brlcad: I have to checkout of this room. I will see you around though.
22:55.14 brlcad getting that machine-precise is tricky
22:55.24 brlcad okay, see ya
22:55.28 jarray52 brlcad: Yes. That is the tricky part.
22:55.41 jarray52 brlcad: Thanks for answering my questions.
22:55.42 brlcad doing it via brep and projection is not as hard
22:56.04 jarray52 brlcad: I see.
22:56.18 jarray52 brlcad: Thanks. Bye.
22:56.20 brlcad cya
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22:58.51 brlcad finishes adding some basic table formatting to help with Deuces readability

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