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| 03:10.44 | brlcad | crazy lag |
| 03:11.00 | brlcad | ``Erik: notify deaded |
| 05:31.13 | brlcad | woot, finally less than 100 pending review |
| 05:31.22 | brlcad | (from 350+) |
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| 11:28.18 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55036 brlcad/trunk/TODO: make fbserv's device argument optional and specifiable for both |
| 11:28.19 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55037 brlcad/trunk/include/vmath.h: document the JOIN1 macros |
| 11:28.20 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55038 brlcad/trunk/NEWS: richard added several new man pages for mged commands reid, bot_sync, bot_flip, bot_split, and rtarea. the latter already existed, but was updated with mged-specific information (we need a way to consolidate/reuse these nuggets). the rest were merely knowledge passed through the generations... so nice rounding out of docs to have them added. |
| 11:28.21 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55039 brlcad/trunk/NEWS: tom browder made a sweeping update to all of the existing manual pages (fortunately before the were all converted to doxygen) in r51302 where he corrected and updated missing author/copyright/bugreport sections, eliminated references to our old cadbug.sh script, and (yowsa) actually made the copyright year reflect the dates of editing based on earliest svn log entry |
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| 11:43.53 | ``Erik | https://github.com/erikg/cl-cia/commit/76ae24e96d3cec4ecabdcc5d2ffffc581f8a0fcb will hopefully work fairly well, might be an issue with reconnecting while the ghost is still around :/ |
| 12:22.20 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:bob1961 * 55043 brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/lib/Ged.tcl: Added cadwidgets::Ged::validateRgb |
| 12:23.37 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:bob1961 * 55044 brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ShaderEdit.tcl: Added support for the checker shader. |
| 12:37.51 | *** join/#brlcad pawleeq (~pawleeq@static-cl031028150026.unet.cz) | |
| 12:38.06 | pawleeq | hello |
| 12:40.27 | pawleeq | how can I get list of brlcads c functions? |
| 13:27.40 | brlcad | pawleeq: which ones and for what purpose? |
| 13:28.10 | brlcad | pawleeq: public functions should are all declared in our public headers in the include/ directory |
| 13:28.41 | brlcad | public and private functions can be pulled directly from binaries and libraries with the ld command |
| 13:29.10 | brlcad | there are other tools that will extract them from source files as well |
| 13:29.17 | pawleeq | brlcad, ok thanks |
| 13:29.28 | brlcad | but there are thousands... |
| 13:29.29 | pawleeq | we are thinking about QT based GUI |
| 13:29.43 | brlcad | "we"? |
| 13:30.05 | pawleeq | so basically we need functions to make primitives and to combine them |
| 13:30.26 | pawleeq | we... right now there is only me, one programmer and one othar CAD enthusist |
| 13:31.15 | brlcad | jumping into that without any context or structure is going to be quite... frustrating |
| 13:31.43 | brlcad | having a list of functions is a really rough way to start :) |
| 13:31.53 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 55045 (brlcad/trunk/include/bn.h brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/tests/bn_coplanar_tri_tri_isect.c and 2 others): Rename function bn_coplanar_tri_tri_isect to bn_tri_tri_isect_coplanar |
| 13:32.03 | brlcad | starseeker: danka sir |
| 13:32.14 | pawleeq | i know it is |
| 13:33.21 | brlcad | pawleeq: commendable effort and I'll be glad to support you with any info you need |
| 13:33.27 | pawleeq | we are on very beginning, just discussing what and how to use |
| 13:33.40 | brlcad | there's no need for it to be a separate effort, you can work in the source tree in a separate module |
| 13:33.55 | brlcad | or use the QT work that was started a couple years ago |
| 13:34.31 | pawleeq | brlcad, ok, I will take look an that |
| 13:34.55 | pawleeq | brlcad, how hard is it to make brlcad work with points lines and planes? |
| 13:35.23 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 55046 brlcad/trunk/src/libbn/tests/CMakeLists.txt: Rename file for bn_tri_tri_isect_coplanar test and update test names |
| 13:35.51 | brlcad | pawleeq: some background info here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm |
| 13:36.32 | brlcad | it depends entirely what you mean by that -- we certainly have in-memory data structures for points, lines, and planes |
| 13:36.43 | brlcad | nearly every object involves one of the three |
| 13:39.31 | pawleeq | I would like to have opprotuninty to work only with planes or lines, because of contraints between them and primitives |
| 13:39.50 | pawleeq | so if I move the plane, the contrained solids will aslo move |
| 13:40.27 | brlcad | that's an interface problem, not a data problem |
| 13:41.15 | pawleeq | user interface? |
| 13:41.26 | brlcad | input/editing interface, yes |
| 13:41.36 | brlcad | at least to an extent |
| 13:41.59 | brlcad | constraints between objects would be new, but objects already have internal constraints |
| 13:42.25 | brlcad | you have already create a box, for example, grab an edge, move it around and all the face planes and corner points update with it |
| 13:46.58 | pawleeq | what I think about is to have constraints between separate solids, so I create a box and a sphere a and I set contraint between one face on spheres center, so whenewer I move the box, or only the contrained face) the sphere also moves |
| 13:47.36 | brlcad | that's actually a feature currently under development, slated for demo this summer |
| 13:47.49 | brlcad | we're implementing that via explicit constraint objects |
| 13:48.01 | brlcad | much of the infrastructure is already in place |
| 13:48.08 | pawleeq | wonderfull |
| 13:48.56 | brlcad | pawleeq: no desire to try and fix some core bug issue like the guy on the mailing list? |
| 13:49.02 | brlcad | best way to get introduced into the API |
| 13:49.12 | brlcad | there are layers of libraries |
| 13:50.52 | pawleeq | I would like to, but I am not a programmer |
| 13:52.03 | brlcad | did a quick check, there are about 2362 public API functions |
| 13:53.22 | brlcad | across 16 distinct sets |
| 13:53.55 | brlcad | math library, utility library, database I/O, ray tracing, etc |
| 13:54.12 | pawleeq | i will tell that to our C expert, I am curious what will he say:) |
| 13:54.27 | ``Erik | that's just function symbols, not the macros, right? |
| 13:54.27 | brlcad | you should have your C guy come join in here and work on something... |
| 13:54.43 | pawleeq | I will tell him |
| 13:54.45 | brlcad | ``Erik: yeah.. just a grep on EXPORT |
| 13:55.16 | brlcad | this'll get you part way there: grep EXPORT ../include/*.h| grep -v \# | grep -v '/\*' | grep -v DEPRE | grep -v JNI |
| 13:55.58 | pawleeq | to make things clear, we are still more talking than coding about CADUS project (cadus.org), right now we are discussing the "backend", from my point of view it looks more like a gui for BRLCAD |
| 13:58.26 | ``Erik | pawleeq: at the moment, we sorta have 3 gui frontends (mged, archer, mged classic mode), with an effort to split frontend and backend capabilities cleanly (libged). We're designed for that seperation and any patches to improve it are welcome : |
| 13:58.31 | brlcad | pawleeq: that's interesting, I hadn't seen that |
| 13:58.55 | brlcad | pawleeq: of course I agree that the backend should be BRL-CAD ;) |
| 13:59.37 | brlcad | do know that a new GUI in QT is also in our development roadmap, so we have some great collaboration potential |
| 13:59.39 | pawleeq | brlcad, so do I |
| 14:01.21 | pawleeq | that is great I will keep you informed how and where we get |
| 14:02.11 | brlcad | i'll be posting up our roadmap to the mailing list in a few days as well, might help make some things clear |
| 14:02.43 | pawleeq | I will subsribe |
| 14:03.20 | brlcad | you're not on brlcad-news already? |
| 14:06.46 | pawleeq | I were not, shame I know:) |
| 14:08.11 | brlcad | heh |
| 14:08.25 | brlcad | just surprising, I thought you saw some of the past announcements given things you talked about |
| 14:09.41 | brlcad | we can certainly be the gecko to your firefox .. save you a few hundred man-years of work |
| 14:10.07 | brlcad | know that the common pitfall is a dev that says "it's too complex" and tries to do it all on their own |
| 14:10.54 | brlcad | I've seen it happen nearly every year for the past 10 years and they all fail within a couple years because it's just so much work and they didn't realize all that complexity is actually there for a reason |
| 14:11.22 | pawleeq | I like brl-cad for its complexity, I just want to to make it nice GUI |
| 14:11.28 | brlcad | us too :) |
| 14:11.54 | brlcad | so either we'll end up with two separate GUIs (which I think is PERFECTLY fine, by the way) |
| 14:12.05 | brlcad | or a unified GUI that we both work on |
| 14:13.01 | brlcad | which is even better IMO, but begs for buy-in from your C guy to get him involved with BRL-CAD development |
| 14:13.23 | pawleeq | we are blogging about "new open source cad" and what we can read in discussion is ... well one group is sympathetic, other one sells us to hell.. because of complexity |
| 14:13.27 | brlcad | not necessary, but helps if he can commit fixes changes he needs and vice versa |
| 14:14.08 | brlcad | because of cadus complexity already or brl-cad complexity? |
| 14:14.34 | pawleeq | cadus right now has no complexity at all |
| 14:14.50 | brlcad | I was going to say |
| 14:14.53 | brlcad | I see plans on the site |
| 14:15.00 | brlcad | at least, the start of plans |
| 14:16.24 | brlcad | one of my personal goals over the next couple years is to address some of our superfluous complexity, modularize and organize better |
| 14:17.04 | brlcad | there's a lot of infrastructure to move around and documents that need to get put on the website for that, but it should help remove some of the misperception |
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| 14:22.33 | pawleeq | I will try to convince our C guy to work on brlcad |
| 14:22.53 | pawleeq | and there he goes pepca is our C guy :) |
| 14:23.41 | brlcad | welcome pepca :) |
| 14:23.45 | pepca | hello :) |
| 14:24.09 | brlcad | we were just talking about the great work you guys have planned |
| 14:24.36 | brlcad | sounds like we have nearly the exact same goals, interests, plans, and concerns ;) |
| 14:25.08 | pepca | nice :) |
| 14:25.45 | pepca | and how nearly it is ? |
| 14:26.38 | brlcad | how nearly is what? |
| 14:26.54 | brlcad | I mean big picture |
| 14:26.55 | pepca | that goals, interests, plans, and concerns |
| 14:29.32 | brlcad | goals and interest: new better GUI, good geometry infrastructure, constraints and parametrics, easy to use, ... |
| 14:29.33 | pepca | ok, so far we are collecting ideas and requirements and what we need... and it looks like brlcad could be good backend, so we would have to create a good frontend only |
| 14:30.00 | pepca | question is, how easy is to connect brlcad and qt application |
| 14:30.07 | brlcad | plans: develop those ;) |
| 14:30.27 | brlcad | concerns: a lot of complexity, need to better modularize and document |
| 14:30.38 | brlcad | and reduce |
| 14:30.46 | brlcad | it's pretty easy, been done before |
| 14:31.18 | pepca | do you have something that I can read bout that ? |
| 14:31.35 | pepca | or where i can start |
| 14:31.49 | brlcad | I was telling pawleeq that a new Qt GUI is also in our development roadmap (planned for next year, currently working on infrastructure and rolling out an intermediate interface in the meantime) |
| 14:32.17 | brlcad | so we'll either end up with two separate GUIs (which is PERFECTLY fine) or a unified GUI that we both work on, collective manpower |
| 14:32.38 | pepca | but you have not started on gui yet, right ? |
| 14:33.14 | brlcad | we have, but it was mostly demo work and then we shifted focus back on infrastructure |
| 14:33.18 | brlcad | http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Mafm |
| 14:33.29 | brlcad | there is a development log there from a couple years ago |
| 14:34.20 | brlcad | that work continued for a couple years, but was basically a demo of an interface running a QT interface on top of OGRE (for display management) |
| 14:35.35 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55047 brlcad/trunk/src/util/decimate.c: improve error reporting in decimate command |
| 14:35.59 | brlcad | again, you're not likely to be impressed by much there -- it was proof of concept work with a lot of emphasis on infrastructure since then |
| 14:37.36 | pepca | proof of concept is good thing |
| 14:38.32 | brlcad | the question is more of how to best work together (if that's something that interests you) and how to get started |
| 14:40.20 | brlcad | we have a big development team and a lot of activity, but obviously have our own priority and existing development roadmap |
| 14:40.30 | brlcad | so it's more finding a mutual itch to scratch :) |
| 14:40.51 | pepca | we had a few messy discussions about creating a CAD and I created a picture ... http://cadus.org/trac/wiki/BigPicture ... I've started from the GUI part and hoped |
| 14:41.04 | pepca | (but no code yet) |
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| 14:51.33 | brlcad | in browser parlance, I kind of see this like BRL-CAD being the webkit to your Chrome |
| 14:51.38 | ``Erik | takes a moment to laugh at the sagonet users |
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| 15:18.32 | brlcad | pepca: apparently ISP issue, sorry -- last I saw from you was 10:41 < pepca> (but no code yet) |
| 15:19.35 | maths22 | brlcad: so are these disconnects an isp issue, not a freenode issue? |
| 15:19.43 | brlcad | on the webkit chrome line, the question is just whether we help you write chrome or let you do chrome while we implement safari (and continue to work on webkit with you) :) |
| 15:20.07 | brlcad | maths22: I don't know |
| 15:20.17 | brlcad | and hi maths22, just talking about your work :) |
| 15:20.37 | maths22 | what time?/which work? |
| 15:20.59 | brlcad | er, wrong 'm', never mind :) |
| 15:21.17 | maths22 | Also, almost every time I log on I have to reauthenticate with nickserv |
| 15:21.32 | brlcad | maths22: actually some of your GCI work is relevant |
| 15:21.33 | maths22 | Do you know if IRSSI can do that automatically? |
| 15:21.36 | brlcad | organization of information ;) |
| 15:22.19 | brlcad | it could certainly do it as a script, but don't know the magic myself |
| 15:22.31 | maths22 | I will look for one. I didn't know if you used one. |
| 15:22.33 | brlcad | maths22: any progress on creating that stylesheet? |
| 15:23.02 | maths22 | I kind of put that on hold with our robotics world championships coming up and too much robot work to do. |
| 15:24.36 | maths22 | After april 27, I can get back to that |
| 15:24.51 | maths22 | Maybe sooner if I feel like working on it on the bus ride to St. Louis |
| 15:25.47 | brlcad | cool |
| 15:26.06 | brlcad | would be nice to unveil a new website before GSoC begins |
| 15:26.21 | maths22 | When does GSoC start? |
| 15:26.34 | brlcad | we find out if we're accepted tomorrow |
| 15:26.47 | brlcad | students start applying in a couple weeks after |
| 15:26.58 | maths22 | I just pulled up the site to check, and it appears the orgs are announced on monday |
| 15:27.04 | brlcad | looks like April22 |
| 15:27.32 | maths22 | What is April 22 |
| 15:27.47 | starseeker | pawleeq, pepca: If you're looking to do some Qt gui work, you might want to check out the Ogitor project - they integrate Qt and OGRE |
| 15:28.02 | brlcad | that's when student start applying |
| 15:28.13 | maths22 | thanks |
| 15:28.22 | brlcad | if we're going to do anything, that'd probably be the latest |
| 15:29.10 | brlcad | but really once they announce, we have to get a lot of stuff in order so it might be too late already if you're busy |
| 15:29.37 | brlcad | (i.e., again, assuming they announce affirmatively on monday) |
| 15:48.04 | pepca | hmmm... |
| 15:49.37 | pepca | btw, what do you thing about that big picture at http://cadus.org/trac/wiki/BigPicture ? |
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| 16:24.33 | brlcad | pepca: I like the general idea with a separation of the gui from "modules" and the filesystem |
| 16:25.55 | brlcad | there are definitely some small differences with what we have planned (nearly everything in your modules box is encompassed by our Geometry Service project |
| 16:26.22 | brlcad | but I think a lot of it is just terminology difference |
| 16:27.45 | brlcad | we have a fair bit more modules and back-end functionality identified, but not so much on the front-end |
| 16:28.33 | brlcad | a proper CAD engine encompasses much more than mathematics, it's also file conversion, data processing, analysis, .. |
| 16:29.33 | brlcad | and a CAD engine doing any real work invariably needs to contact the disk (most "real" models often don't fit in memory) |
| 16:30.20 | brlcad | GS is presently paused development, but you can read up on some of the design intent here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/GS_Dev_Requirements |
| 16:31.40 | brlcad | more here http://brlcad.org/wiki/Geometry_Service_Project_Main |
| 16:32.07 | brlcad | (note a lot of stubs, work in progress) |
| 16:34.11 | brlcad | most of the real progress on the Geometry Engine portion is here: http://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD%27s_core_C%2B%2B_interface (and that's usable now for some purposes) |
| 16:35.27 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 4959 /wiki/Developer_Documents: find was implemented as search |
| 16:36.24 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 0 /wiki/A_find_Command_for_BRL-CAD_geometry: this development project was completed and is extensively integrated/documented as the "search" command |
| 16:38.07 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 0 /wiki/BREP_Primitive: also implemented, brep/nurbs support is complete |
| 16:38.25 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 4960 /wiki/Developer_Documents: brep is implemented |
| 16:38.53 | pepca | taht last link looks very very interesting ... thank you |
| 16:39.06 | pepca | * that |
| 16:39.40 | brlcad | the core interface is a separate download aimed at developers |
| 16:40.14 | brlcad | it's the start of our geometry engine, though a lot of functionality is just stubbed in -- the vast majority of our functionality exists in our main libraries in the main checkout |
| 16:40.31 | brlcad | so if you see something missing, it's probably just not yet hooked into that cleaner API |
| 16:41.11 | brlcad | the Geometry Service (GS) is meant to be a network protocol for applications to build on top of |
| 16:42.21 | brlcad | the Geometry Engine (GE) is a C++ API (and currently called our "core interface") intended to be similar to ACIS, Granite, Parasolid and other commercial geometry kernels |
| 16:42.58 | brlcad | GS builds on top of the GE adding in geometry versioning, editing history, multiuser access controls, and model management |
| 16:43.53 | brlcad | I have some much better documents describing it all, but it'll take a few days to upload it somewhere (ping me if interested), but you can certainly start with the core interface and see how things look |
| 16:44.55 | brlcad | pepca: one thing I was mentioning to pawleeq is the possibility of getting you set up as a brl-cad dev too so you can commit bidirectionally |
| 16:45.17 | brlcad | e.g., if you find you need some change to core interface, you just make it and commit instead of working around it |
| 16:45.49 | brlcad | or working on some small feature in brl-cad so that you become familiarized with the libraries and layout of information |
| 16:49.12 | pepca | yeah, that would be nice... but there is a lot of time until i will have something to commit ;) |
| 16:49.15 | pepca | so ... |
| 16:49.38 | pepca | where is QBrlcadWidget ? :) |
| 16:51.08 | pepca | if I understand it correctly, the GE is the part which calculates everything... so when user draws something, he only tells GE what he wants |
| 16:52.17 | pepca | so the main part what needs to be done is to fill up the space between user and E |
| 16:52.21 | pepca | and GE |
| 16:52.26 | pepca | right ? |
| 16:57.34 | pepca | btw, what is the API difference between GS and GE ? Is GS only an extension of GE, so the code working with GE can work with GS in the same way ? |
| 17:02.23 | brlcad | calculates and holds in-memory representation |
| 17:03.01 | pepca | ok, so the GE is the M in MVC |
| 17:04.08 | brlcad | a typical use might be to say "GE open this file, give me a list of objects, give me the display list for this object, apply this temporary transformation on the object, write the change to disk, close the file |
| 17:05.26 | pepca | "display list for this object" is opengl display list ? |
| 17:05.49 | brlcad | it could be anything, but yes |
| 17:07.29 | pepca | it looks like a perfect backend part of our new cad :) ... i will study it more deeply later |
| 17:07.31 | brlcad | note that we're discussing a development that's in-progress so it's all easily subject to change ;) |
| 17:07.46 | pepca | of course |
| 17:07.58 | pepca | now ... the frontend part |
| 17:08.27 | brlcad | from our perspective, GE builds on top of 12 or so other libraries in BRL-CAD |
| 17:08.35 | pepca | wow |
| 17:09.13 | brlcad | but the 12 are a data-driven collection, 2000+ functions so GE goal is intentionally to clean that up and encapsulate better/more |
| 17:09.33 | pepca | that is scary |
| 17:09.49 | brlcad | as far as a CAD engine goes, we're actually tiny |
| 17:10.11 | brlcad | those three commercial engines I mentioned (that represent something like 95% of commercial CAD software) are FAR bigger |
| 17:10.20 | brlcad | CAD just encompasses a lot of concepts |
| 17:10.23 | *** part/#brlcad jordisayol (~jordisayo@unaffiliated/jordisayol) | |
| 17:11.24 | pepca | well... I'm really happy that I will not have to write all that :) |
| 17:12.09 | brlcad | those twelve include simple concepts like a utility library (strings, file i/o, threads) and math library to bigger packages like geometry conversion, geometry processing, image/data processing, rendering, geometry analysis, geometry editing, ... |
| 17:12.19 | brlcad | yeah, it's frustruating |
| 17:12.33 | pepca | :) |
| 17:13.03 | brlcad | I was telling pawl that I've seen at least a dozen other similar open source attempts to "start over" over the past decade |
| 17:13.52 | brlcad | many of them looked at BRL-CAD and (others) and decide "what?! that's way too much, too complex, too messy .. I'm gonna start clean by myself" |
| 17:14.08 | pepca | how long they last ? |
| 17:14.09 | brlcad | and they've all failed within two years |
| 17:14.13 | pepca | :D |
| 17:14.16 | brlcad | they get abandonded |
| 17:14.23 | brlcad | just don't realize how much work is involved |
| 17:15.04 | brlcad | ohloh estimates that we have about 300+ *years* of effort implemented |
| 17:15.13 | pepca | wow |
| 17:15.22 | brlcad | one or two people can't come close to touching that in their lifetime |
| 17:15.37 | brlcad | we're on par with Blender |
| 17:15.42 | brlcad | just they look prettier ;) |
| 17:15.45 | pepca | :D |
| 17:16.09 | brlcad | and are much easier to use ... we're a pain in the ass |
| 17:16.18 | brlcad | but we know our problems, we're working on them .. it just takes time |
| 17:16.30 | pepca | ok ok |
| 17:16.52 | pepca | so, the frontend part... lets say i want to show qt window with some 3D view to show something. I will prepare GE and fill it with data, create the Qt window, and then? |
| 17:17.08 | pepca | is there something like "QBrlcadWidget" ? |
| 17:17.15 | brlcad | so I'm curious how far you get with core interface (that's the logical starting point) |
| 17:18.08 | brlcad | if it falls flat, we can either add hooks you need for displaying geometry or we can migrate to our libged/librt libraries which have much more but not as neatly |
| 17:18.17 | brlcad | there is no such widget heh |
| 17:19.43 | pepca | so the widget is our first step |
| 17:20.19 | pepca | create some opengl view and connect it to GE |
| 17:21.06 | pepca | then build nice window around it and let user play with it |
| 17:24.30 | brlcad | you could take a look at mafm's work from a couple years ago since that was a functional connection to our libged/librt library layer |
| 17:25.08 | pepca | yeah, I read some 'devel log' few hours ago... is there sourcode anywhere? |
| 17:25.24 | brlcad | yeah, it's in our repo |
| 17:26.15 | brlcad | I think it's maybe this source: http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/brlcad/rt%5e3/trunk/src/g3d/ |
| 17:26.24 | brlcad | repo is the trunk dir |
| 17:28.39 | brlcad | it certainly will need updates to even compile, but it ended up looking like this: http://brlcad.org/w/images/3/37/G3d-2009-08-03.png |
| 17:29.10 | brlcad | huh, I wrote the wrong dev log -- mafm was the 2008 work, ralith continued it in 2009: http://brlcad.org/wiki/User:Ralith |
| 17:32.05 | pepca | that looks like embryo of my QBrlWidget :) |
| 17:33.23 | brlcad | the abstract/content sections at the end have the project summary |
| 17:34.30 | pepca | yeah, it looks like he tried to do a complete editor |
| 17:34.42 | brlcad | once he got a graphics window up, ralith spent half his summer just working on getting mouse behavior correct for those three camera modes (i.e., a little distracted) |
| 17:35.11 | brlcad | well not so much the editing itself, but hooking a new gui to our libs like we've been talking |
| 17:35.34 | brlcad | we have some specific ideas in mind for our interface plans |
| 17:36.32 | brlcad | he was mostly trying to solve an architecture problem, how to get ogre in qt or qt into blender to display brl-cad geometry |
| 17:37.13 | brlcad | ditching rbgui (mafm's previous year work) for qt |
| 17:38.42 | brlcad | he was building on mafm's work, which got pretty far on it's own: http://brlcad.org/~mafm/g3d-screenshots/brlcad_rbgui_20080824-1.png |
| 17:39.10 | pepca | yes he did |
| 17:39.22 | brlcad | (note those are both 3-month projects) |
| 17:39.56 | brlcad | and by new student devs, not core experience |
| 17:40.16 | brlcad | we mentored them through the design, APIs, and debugging |
| 17:41.39 | pepca | yeah... it is awesome piece of work |
| 17:43.31 | brlcad | pepca: so unrelated, but just so you're aware -- we're rolling out a new alpha GUI for BRL-CAD that has been under development for a few years |
| 17:43.57 | brlcad | meant to be a stepping stone between our current mged interface and a third generation QT-based interface |
| 17:44.19 | brlcad | just so you're not suprised, you'd probably eventually run into it or hear about it |
| 17:44.27 | brlcad | looks a little like this: http://brlcad.org/~starseeker/archer_latest.png |
| 17:44.37 | brlcad | not great, but better than mged |
| 17:45.41 | brlcad | mged: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/BRL-CAD_screenshot.jpeg |
| 17:48.39 | pepca | that looks very nice |
| 17:48.55 | brlcad | meh :) |
| 17:49.20 | pepca | :D |
| 17:50.11 | pepca | and how is the third generation gui going ? |
| 17:51.27 | brlcad | it's a passive priority at the moment, but progresses little bits at a time |
| 17:51.44 | brlcad | remember, we've been focusing on infrastructure |
| 17:51.58 | brlcad | and major new features, working on boundary representation NURBS and ISO STEP support |
| 17:53.40 | pepca | does it have some web page ? |
| 17:53.52 | maths22 | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.54 | maths22 | sorry |
| 17:54.59 | brlcad | I think about 8 years of full-time effort has gone into NURBS and 4 or so into STEP, both just coming to "completion" this year |
| 17:55.50 | brlcad | what is "it"? |
| 17:56.01 | brlcad | the nurbs/step work? |
| 17:56.10 | brlcad | or 3rd gen gui? |
| 17:56.57 | pepca | 3rd gen gui |
| 18:02.57 | brlcad | there's a lot of material on it, but not much online beyond what you've seen (because it's not what we're actively working on) |
| 18:03.37 | brlcad | just the gsoc student work, the work related to the geometry service, and some prototype/design information |
| 18:04.20 | pepca | hmm hmm.. ok |
| 18:05.31 | brlcad | some of the design work is here: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/ |
| 18:06.39 | pepca | so there will be almost no duplication of effort if we start with some user interface and that QBrlWidget to show data from GE |
| 18:06.45 | brlcad | skriptkid's prototype was fantastic: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/gci_skriptkid_prototype/brlCad-01.png |
| 18:07.06 | pepca | wow |
| 18:07.21 | pepca | is it only painted screenshot or real code ? |
| 18:07.41 | brlcad | painted |
| 18:08.08 | brlcad | all based on stuff mged and archer already do now, just looks better |
| 18:08.23 | pepca | yeah |
| 18:08.46 | brlcad | that's where our 300+ years comes in to play |
| 18:08.56 | brlcad | ton of functionality, we present it terribly ;) |
| 18:09.16 | pepca | yes :) |
| 18:09.50 | pepca | I've let one engineer to try brl today... it was his near-death experience |
| 18:09.51 | brlcad | even the other prototypes weren't too bad: http://brlcad.org/design/gui/gci_gauravjeet_prototype/cad.png http://brlcad.org/design/gui/gci_alexander_prototype/cad-interface.jpg |
| 18:09.57 | brlcad | heh |
| 18:11.47 | brlcad | our current interface is completely different from all the commercial offerings |
| 18:12.18 | brlcad | nearly as powerful or even better in several areas, and lacking in others |
| 18:12.21 | brlcad | as far as I know, BRL-CAD's the only open source CAD actually in production/professional use |
| 18:12.32 | pepca | that engineer showed me pro/e and how he is working it ... it looked very effectiv |
| 18:12.33 | pepca | e |
| 18:12.47 | brlcad | compared to commercial CAD, we're very niche |
| 18:13.34 | brlcad | nothing in open source is going to come close to touching the big-five CAD (pro-e, catia, solidworks, nx/unigraphics, and autocad) without massive collaboration (100+ devs) |
| 18:14.42 | pepca | well... since i'm phd student at CTU, i can (theoreticaly) involve some students to work here |
| 18:15.08 | pepca | semestral projects, bachelor thesis, ... |
| 18:15.21 | brlcad | we have 10-30 active devs depending on the year |
| 18:15.49 | brlcad | the *smallest* of the big five has approximately 100 devs employed full-time |
| 18:16.04 | pepca | :) |
| 18:16.30 | pepca | at least you do not have to move decimal point to see the actual numbers :) |
| 18:16.30 | brlcad | our main advantage is 30+ years under development and, of course, open source collaboration :) |
| 18:34.03 | pepca | ok.. so the conclusion for today is "Lets create nice user interface and QBrlWidget, everything else is already there." |
| 18:35.42 | pepca | I will let people here to discuss this and we will see what happens |
| 18:37.08 | pepca | I also added a lot of links into our wiki -- thank you :) |
| 18:42.38 | *** join/#brlcad cristina (~quassel@188.24.21.219) | |
| 18:53.21 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@205-115-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net) | |
| 19:05.18 | pawleeq | brlcad, thank you very much for this chat |
| 19:14.35 | brlcad | pawleeq: always open to more collaboration and development |
| 19:14.46 | pawleeq | :) |
| 19:37.45 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55048 brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: move lines ahead of a slew of value-setting lines, which would be meaningless if 'Exiting' was invoked |
| 21:09.51 | *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@83-47-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net) | |
| 21:45.12 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55049 brlcad/trunk/src/conv/dem-g.c: no programming change, but add comment about 3 file names based on the filename provided (I don't know what dem file is) |
| 22:33.24 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:r_weiss * 55050 brlcad/trunk/src/librt/primitives/nmg/nmg_inter.c: Bug fix for function "nmg_isect_fu_jra" in file "nmg_inter.c". The number of edgeuse in the loopuse changes as the loopuse is processed which can cause an infinite loop. This change fixes the infinite loop. This problem can occasionally be seen using the mged "ev" command. |
