IRC log for #brlcad on 20130524

00:59.53 mpictor ``Erik: thanks
01:00.40 mpictor starseeker: kdevelop takes a while to load it, but it does load without error
01:01.08 mpictor search, code browser, etc work and aren't noticeably slow
01:01.24 starseeker that's pretty impressive
01:01.56 starseeker mpictor: we do plan to switch to the github srcs, by the way - we're just delaying it until we complete our release
01:02.09 mpictor oic
01:02.20 starseeker we're just a tad late, so we don't want to introduce any more variables...
01:02.50 mpictor btw, if you want to use kdevelop, you'll need 4.5.61 or later
01:03.20 mpictor or use gentoo and build kdevelop from master :)
01:03.35 starseeker heh - I'm trying to be nicer to my computer this time
01:03.49 starseeker the last two used gentoo and bit the dust after a couple years
01:04.00 mpictor lol
01:04.19 mpictor I was on debian until I got this system last fall
01:04.51 starseeker had an old alienware laptop (from before they got bought by Dell) and wiped it out trying to upgrade a Gentoo install that got too old
01:05.04 mpictor got tired of reporting bugs in things only to find that they'd been fixed months ago in a version that wasn't in testing yet
01:05.14 starseeker heh
01:05.17 mpictor crap :(
01:05.51 starseeker tends to just build and install in /usr/local the things he cares about most for being current (CMake, clang, etc.)
01:05.55 mpictor yea I had trouble with this computer, but the only solution was a 32-bit kernel or a very new kernel
01:06.17 starseeker nods - I needed the latest Ubuntu for this Dell machine
01:06.35 mpictor I thought about that, but it looked like building kdevelop would get pretty involved
01:06.46 starseeker winces - yeah, that's a point
01:07.02 starseeker probably why I usually end up back at CMake + vim + xterm + compiler :-)
01:07.09 mpictor heh
01:07.21 starseeker yeah, available version is 4.4.4
01:07.23 starseeker phooey
01:07.32 mpictor the only vi I know is :wq and :q
01:07.38 starseeker hehe
01:07.42 mpictor kdevelop? that might work
01:07.52 starseeker you said 4.5.61 or later...
01:08.02 mpictor some older versions don't crash, but they have a bug wrt build targets
01:08.09 starseeker hrm
01:08.12 mpictor yea
01:08.29 starseeker what the heck, I haven't crashed the machine this week...
01:08.37 mpictor I upgraded to get away from the build target bug, only to hit the cmake parse bug
01:08.41 mpictor lol
01:09.13 starseeker wonders if that's what prompted that little exchange he saw on the CMake list...
01:11.24 mpictor it would have been 5/5 or after
01:11.25 mpictor https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319379
01:13.13 starseeker there are occasional discussions trying to get CMake to use some other, pre-existing language instead of defining their own
01:13.54 starseeker can see both sides of that - the limited subset sort of forces you to behave and not go hog wild with complexity, unless it's something you *really* need
01:14.38 starseeker but by the same token, if you really *do* need it the limitations are a pain
01:15.09 mpictor seems like cmake could parse the files and output most of the info in xml
01:15.34 mpictor that way, it's easy to skip any info that the ide doesn't need
01:15.59 mpictor I remember some other ide causes cmake to generate code::blocks files, then parses those
01:16.06 starseeker or JSON even (I'll let ``Erik advocate for s-expressions)
01:16.39 starseeker nods - in some ways, I think we've reached the point where we need a tool-agnostic way to describe software systems
01:17.01 starseeker Autotools, CMake, scons, Visual Studio, Xcode, etc. etc. etc...
01:17.01 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55563 brlcad/trunk/src/util/bw-imp.c: rarely ever need to document what the code was to developers
01:17.18 mpictor yea
01:17.52 starseeker *how* the build tools get the job done is an imlementation detail - what the project folks need to provide is the description of the system to be fed to the tools
01:18.04 mpictor a standard language, and more than one implementation competing
01:18.56 starseeker would be a truckload of work to do it, and unfortunately some of the major players *really* wouldn't care at all about compatibility (*cough*Microsoft*cough*)
01:19.50 starseeker there are enough separate tools now, that have been used for real world projects, that a comprehensive survey and design effort could probably define something useful
01:20.24 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55564 brlcad/trunk/src/fb/bw-fb.c: ws
01:21.55 starseeker lol - "It lead to problems with weird uses of get_filename_components"
01:21.58 starseeker takes a bow
01:22.25 mpictor hah
01:22.57 mpictor yea I was thinking that the redmond implementation would have non-standard extensions and/or subtly different behavior
01:23.00 mpictor :)
01:23.28 starseeker cmake 2.8.11 has actually introduced some interesting new features, which down the road might simplify some of BRL-CAD's build logic, but it's going to be a while before I can require that as a minimum version
01:23.38 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55565 brlcad/trunk/src/fb/bw-fb.c: the high resolution flags can all just go away, even if they equate to two flags (-s 1024 -S 1024) like here, so long as it's a simple substitution.
01:23.38 starseeker 2.8.8 was bad enough
01:26.30 starseeker pfft - crashed 4.4.4 no problem.
01:26.56 starseeker back to the joys of ninja
01:27.24 mpictor I used some 2.8.[78] features in stepcode without realizing it. I wish their docs showed what features were introduced when :/
01:28.02 mpictor btw, I saw a comment in src/conv/step/CMakeLists about massively parallel builds
01:28.09 starseeker it needs updating, but quite useful: http://www.cmake.org/Wiki/CMake_Version_Compatibility_Matrix
01:28.12 mpictor I've run into that muself
01:28.23 mpictor *myself
01:28.25 starseeker mpictor: oh, really? did you save the error message?
01:28.41 mpictor no, I just noticed that it seemed to build the same files over and over
01:28.59 starseeker bugger
01:29.35 starseeker if you can get it to do that and capture a build log, I might be able to do something about it
01:29.37 mpictor I think it may be because of the way I wrote data/CMakeLists in stepcode
01:29.51 starseeker checks...
01:30.07 mpictor to be specific, the problem I ran into was with stepcode by itself, not with brlcad
01:30.22 starseeker nods
01:31.16 starseeker oh, mpictor - can I safely delete my stepcode clone on my own github projects page?
01:31.33 mpictor IIRC, when there are multiple output files for a custom command, cmake ignores all but the first
01:31.36 mpictor yes you can
01:31.42 starseeker cool
01:32.17 starseeker has accumulated quite a number of "cmakeified" projects on github...
01:32.36 mpictor hah
01:34.37 mpictor I've wondered if cmake was sometimes running several instances of fedex_plus in parallel for one schema, when multiple targets that depended on the lib were being built at once
01:35.45 starseeker you wouldn't think so...
01:36.09 starseeker it probably depends on how you set up the dependencies
01:36.49 starseeker usually, I have a custom target that depends on the output files of the custom command(s), and those custom commands in turn have dependencies on their input files
01:37.31 mpictor there's a kdevelop ppa, but it's only at 4.5.0 http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/package/kubuntu-ppa_backports/raring/main/base/kdevelop
01:38.06 starseeker mpictor: I can try restructuring this, but I can't trigger the parallel failure myself
01:38.22 starseeker if I rework it, can you put it through its paces?
01:38.34 mpictor sure
01:38.49 starseeker alrightie - let me check out a non-anonymous repo
01:39.13 mpictor I don't remember triggering it recently though :/
01:39.48 mpictor the fedex command is at https://github.com/stepcode/stepcode/blob/master/data/CMakeLists.txt#L67
01:40.34 mpictor I'm going to hit the sack. should be back on fairly early tomorrow
01:40.49 starseeker cool
01:41.05 starseeker If this turns out to be straightforward, I'll try to commit it tonight
01:41.41 starseeker will try his "standard" custom command pattern and see if that works...
01:41.59 starseeker CMake has lots of ways to do this, but it always seems to boil down into one particular pattern...
01:42.09 brlcad twitter url fixed (thx mpictor)
01:52.19 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 55566 (brlcad/trunk/src/fb/cmap-fb.c brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fb-bw.c and 28 others): ws indent style cleanup
02:03.49 starseeker yow - some of these step schemas are mean on memory to build
02:09.37 starseeker hopes it really was that simple...
02:09.44 starseeker fingers crossed
02:22.24 brlcad starseeker: you trying the combined schema?
02:22.37 starseeker hmm?
02:22.53 starseeker did the default build, which I think builds the schema
02:22.53 brlcad really wonders if that one will behave well enough for 203 and adequately for 214 files
02:23.00 starseeker oh, sorry
02:23.16 starseeker no, trying to fix the problem building on a massively parallel setup
02:23.35 brlcad http://www.steptools.com/support/stdev_docs/stpcad/index.html
02:23.55 starseeker thinks he recalls brlcad mentioning the parallel build issue in stepcode too...
02:23.58 brlcad more specifically, http://www.steptools.com/support/stdev_docs/stpcad/step_merged_cad_schema.exp
02:24.32 brlcad in theory, that bad-boy would give us a step-g that could read pretty much anything
02:26.22 starseeker step_merged_cad_schema.exp:16224: --ERROR: Entity motion_link_relationship missing from supertype list for subtype resulting_path.
02:26.41 starseeker few other errors
02:27.09 brlcad hm
02:27.29 brlcad don't know the spec that well to know if that's a stepcode error or a schema error
02:32.32 starseeker brlcad: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137286
02:37.48 brlcad fortunately that doesn't look like a lot of issues
02:38.45 starseeker ah: http://www.steptools.com/support/stdev_docs/stpfiles/ap214/index.html
02:39.32 starseeker http://www.steptools.com/support/stdev_docs/stpfiles/ap203e2/index.html
02:40.01 starseeker more basic than their ap203 tests, but useful none the less
02:40.37 starseeker wonders if he should have the "deterministic build system" discussion with mpictor...
02:42.15 starseeker crosses his fingers that used chromebook pixels appear on the market cheaper after a year or so...
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12:00.48 Notify 03BRL-CAD:indianlarry * 55567 brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbcolor.c: Space was accidently added to constant chat "," -> ", ". Looks to have been added by ws space scripts. Need to check and possible fix script.
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12:34.04 Notify 03BRL-CAD:indianlarry * 55568 (brlcad/trunk/src/fb/fbzoom.c brlcad/trunk/src/fb/gif-fb.c brlcad/trunk/src/fb/pl-fb.c): Sorry a few more. where space was accidently added to constant chat "," -> ", ". Looks to have been added by ws space scripts. Need to check and possible fix script.
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18:16.13 starseeker mpictor: can you tell if that tweak helped the parallel build situation?
18:22.53 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55569 brlcad/trunk/src/util/bw-pix.c: implement -h and -?; also, expand 2 error messages
18:24.19 mpictor starseeker: I haven't been able to trigger it
18:24.40 starseeker heh
18:24.58 starseeker ah well
18:25.29 mpictor like I said at 21:38, I haven't hit it recently - either because I no longer do whatever caused the problem or because of my current setup
18:25.46 starseeker it's a bit hard to tell whether SOURCES establishes the dependency relationship between the custom target and the custom command, but DEPENDS should guarantee it
18:25.58 mpictor yeah
18:26.36 mpictor in the generated makefiles, IIRC, the dependency between the different targets is the first file in the list
18:26.57 starseeker hmm - in principle it should require all of them
18:36.04 mpictor at one time, one of the scripts I used ran make for one generated file:
18:36.05 mpictor make -f data/CMakeFiles/sdai_$i.dir/build.make $i/compstructs.cc >/dev/null
18:36.18 mpictor https://github.com/stepcode/stepcode/commit/b5f23743d62144de74f1e49a97cec377c7b7e8a8#L1R55
18:37.20 mpictor or maybe I used that file simply because it was easy... don't remember
18:47.36 mpictor the first error was easy to fix
18:47.48 mpictor changed line 16226 of the schema to
18:47.50 mpictor <PROTECTED>
18:48.01 mpictor I'm not sure about the others
18:48.44 starseeker mpictor: if we get it working, would you be ok with adding it to stepcode? brlcad is interested in that as a possible path to a multi-version step importer
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18:49.33 mpictor the entity in the first error is identical to the one in ap214e3_2010, and I don't see where 'joint' comes from - it would take more digging to understand
18:49.35 mpictor sure
18:49.45 mpictor s/first/second
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20:57.15 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55570 brlcad/trunk/src/util/bw-png.c: implement -h , -?
21:02.55 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 55571 brlcad/trunk/src/util/bw-ps.c: -h , -?

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