IRC log for #brlcad on 20140310

00:17.45 dennisy f_nirt passes the right arguments to ged_nirt, so the problem must be there
01:01.16 dennisy brlcad: i found what i think is the cause of the problem
01:01.52 dennisy brlcad: in ged_nirt, there is a line that says: "bu_vls_printf(&p_vls, "dir %lf %lf %lf; s", dir[X], dir[Y], dir[Z]);"
01:02.21 dennisy brlcad: the problem is the "; s" in the string
01:02.59 dennisy brlcad: this causes nirt to shoot a ray without waiting for configuration instructions from the -e option
01:04.55 dennisy brlcad: is there a simple way to modify and recompile the source to see what the effect of changing that line would be?
01:21.29 dennisy brlcad: actually, looking over the results from echoing the commands in mged (by clicking "echo cmd" in the query ray control panel), it seems like the problem is far from that simple
01:35.21 dennisy brlcad: anyways, i would like to thank your for your help again, and i'll be back tomorrow to take another crack at this bug
02:24.57 maths22 brlcad: does inderpreet have commit access now?
02:25.39 maths22 I would prefer if he do any theme changes in his git repo, but some stuff might require the svn one
02:25.50 maths22 I'll try to set the git repo to auto-pull if I can figure it out
02:26.59 brlcad doable but bidirectional is problematic
02:27.10 brlcad have to continually rebase
02:27.17 brlcad (assuming commits are happening)
02:27.49 brlcad I don't know his username to add his access and havne't seen him to ask here (too busy with the migration to seek him out)
02:27.54 maths22 It only ought to be uni-directional
02:28.59 maths22 Eventual goal: commit to git which syncs to beta
02:29.17 maths22 if looks good on beta, commit (w/ compiled css) to svn
02:29.27 maths22 svn would go to the live site
02:30.13 brlcad nods, sounds good
02:31.17 maths22 https://help.github.com/articles/creating-webhooks
02:32.03 maths22 Ideally the svn repo would be able to do that too, but I don't think sourceforge supports that type of thing
03:32.52 brlcad it does/did, but it's a bear to set up
03:33.10 brlcad don't know about the new infrastructure
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09:34.06 ishwerdas harmanpreet: h
09:34.14 ishwerdas oops hi
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13:48.27 richa I have downloaded brlcad from http://brlcad.org/d/download for linux
13:48.53 richa When i follow installation instructions and run cmake ../brlcad-X.Y.Z -DBRLCAD_BUNDLED_LIBS=ON -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release
13:49.22 richa I get an error that the source directory does not contain CMakelists.txt
13:49.42 richa What is the solution to this?
13:55.07 d_rossberg richa: which file did you downloaded? *.deb or *.rpm?
13:55.27 richa its .zip
13:56.55 d_rossberg this was probable the runtime DLL for Windows
13:57.39 d_rossberg try this one: http://sourceforge.net/projects/brlcad/files/BRL-CAD%20Source/7.24.0/brlcad-7.24.0.tar.gz/download
13:58.00 richa yeah
13:59.53 richa Also, Is there some specific layout which gsoc students must follow while writing their proposals?
14:04.33 d_rossberg You should look here to see how they could look like: http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2013
14:07.59 d_rossberg btw, you should subscribe this group too: http://groups.google.com/d/forum/gsocax?hl=en
14:10.58 richa yeah, ok
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14:26.42 teepee_ d_rossberg: isn't that the wrong year? ;) http://brlcad.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/Project_Ideas
14:29.47 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Harman052 * 6540 /wiki/Online_Geometry_Viewer_Back-end: Content added
14:29.49 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Harman052 * 6541 /wiki/Online_Geometry_Viewer_Back-end: /* Requirements */
14:29.51 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Harman052 * 6542 /wiki/Online_Geometry_Viewer_Back-end:
14:29.54 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Harman052 * 6543 /wiki/Online_Geometry_Viewer_Interface: Content added
14:29.56 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Harman052 * 6544 /wiki/Online_Geometry_Viewer_Interface: References and requirements added
14:30.03 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 6545 /wiki/Summer_of_Code/Acceptance: remove the brl-cad specific language, generalize and condense verbosity a fair bit
14:30.05 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 6546 /wiki/Summer_of_Code/Acceptance: add one more top-level category to break the flow a little
14:30.07 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 6547 /wiki/Summer_of_Code/Acceptance: /* Write maintainable code */ another cad ref
14:30.09 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Sean * 6548 /wiki/Summer_of_Code/Acceptance: /* License appropriately */
14:30.59 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60106 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/CMakeLists.txt brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/INSTALL and 2 others): Get local openscenegraph build going. Will need both better handling of the build dir plugin situation and an upgraded ThirdParty macro that allows for version specification. Needs a bit of a rework of top level option handling across the board to be done right.
14:31.46 d_rossberg teepee_: ??? where, which year?
14:31.59 teepee_ d_rossberg: your gsoc link to 2013
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14:32.43 teepee_ oh, the last years proposals are also linked there?
14:33.38 d_rossberg yeas, i meant richa should look at last years proposals to get an idea how a good one should look like
14:34.42 teepee_ d_rossberg: right, the penny dropped meanwhile :)
14:35.24 d_rossberg :)
14:35.52 teepee_ was thinking about the checklist page http://brlcad.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code/Checklist
15:28.08 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60107 (brlcad/trunk/INSTALL brlcad/trunk/configure and 3 others): Use CMakeParseArguments to make the THIRD_PARTY macro more flexible.
15:30.47 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60108 brlcad/trunk/misc/CMake/ThirdParty.cmake: remove debugging printing.
15:39.51 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60109 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/AUTHORS brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/INSTALL and 4 others): Update ThirdParty macro from trunk, make appropriate tweaks.
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16:04.43 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:5.15.167.51 * 6549 /wiki/User:Cprecup: /* About me */
16:14.31 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60110 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/misc/CMake/FindOpenSceneGraph.cmake brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/libdm/CMakeLists.txt brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/other/CMakeLists.txt): More build tweaking for OSG. Need another feature in the ThirdParty macro - a list of variables to reset for the search. STEPcode will probably need something similar once we actually start looking for
16:14.33 Notify system versions...
16:25.08 ``Erik huh, 200hp motorcycle from lotus: http://www.lotus-motorcycles.com/
16:29.54 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60111 (brlcad/trunk/misc/CMake/BRLCAD_Summary.cmake brlcad/trunk/misc/CMake/ThirdParty.cmake brlcad/trunk/src/other/CMakeLists.txt): Add an optional ability to specify vars to reset to third party macro
16:31.50 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60112 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/misc/CMake/BRLCAD_Summary.cmake brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/misc/CMake/ThirdParty.cmake and 4 others): grab trunk ThirdParty update
16:41.38 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60113 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/other/CMakeLists.txt: Make sure the include dirs are set.
17:07.29 brlcad ``Erik: holy crap
17:07.33 brlcad that's awesome!
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18:20.44 brlcad teepee: that checklist is going to get updated, but it's a good general guide
18:21.35 brlcad richa: I see now that it wasn't your fault :)
18:21.40 teepee brlcad: I think it's a nice starting point already
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19:31.37 richa I am a GSoC candidate interested in working on "Synchronize wiki with Docbook"
19:32.12 richa I would like to discuss some details regarding this project
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19:33.50 richa I am not clear with how do a general user edit Docbook
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19:37.14 starseeker richa: figuring out an approach is part of the project
19:37.39 starseeker there are several "tiers" of support
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19:38.24 richa starseeker: Yeah, I am figuring out some approaches
19:38.25 starseeker the simplest is a window that shows the DocBook xml to the wiki user, and then "compiles" the xml after they have edited it to produce the HTML web output
19:39.13 starseeker that requires contributors to have a knowledge of how to write DocBook markup, which is a high hurdle, but would still be better than what we have now
19:40.42 starseeker in that scenario (which might be a good first step, regardless of what comes next) the editing process would look very much like our current wiki edit-and-submit cycle, except the markup in the editing window would be DocBook and the "Preview" would be the backend processing the docbook and showing the HTML
19:41.26 starseeker there are several possible "next" steps, all focused on the "better ways to edit DocBook in a browser" problem
19:41.29 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Krajkreddy * 6550 /wiki/User:Krajkreddy/main: Current Works.
19:42.26 raj12lnm hi richa! I hope my inputs were useful. :-)
19:43.01 richa raj12lnm: yeah, they were!
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19:43.33 raj12lnm richa : I am also a aspirant GSOC student.
19:43.41 richa starseeker: Is there some existing code for this or do I need to start from scratch?
19:44.11 raj12lnm kanzure : Can you help me ?
19:44.19 richa raj12lnm: Which project are you interested in?
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19:44.42 raj12lnm richa : I am working on python bindings.
19:45.07 starseeker richa: well, it's not entirely clear
19:45.08 raj12lnm kanzure : I am looking for sample values for vol primitive for the python code.
19:45.29 raj12lnm starseeker : can you help me regarding sample values for vol primitive ?
19:45.34 raj12lnm I sent an email.
19:46.08 starseeker There are a few existing open source codes that might be relevant (there was even a GSoC project in 2009 called Beacon to create a WYSIWYG web-based DocBook editor)
19:46.50 raj12lnm starseeker : I have copy pasted my email here also. http://tny.cz/90f9d8d2
19:46.56 raj12lnm Can you please look at it ?
19:46.59 raj12lnm and guide me.
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19:51.15 starseeker raj12lnm: um. I'm not all that familiar with the vol primitive
19:52.19 kanzure raj12lnm__: i do not have samples
19:52.38 starseeker richa: I'd definitely suggest checking out Beacon as a precursor to your proposal - either have an idea how it might be used or (if it can't be used) how what they tried can inform what you propose to do for this project
19:53.15 kanzure raj12lnm__: btw, i think that one of the most needed pieces of python-brlcad is better automated testing (especially on windows) possibly through http://travis-ci.org/ and http://vagrantbox.es/
19:53.26 richa starseeker: Till now I have understood that I need to convert docbook syntax to mediawiki syntax and vice-versa
19:53.33 richa Am I going on the right path?
19:53.42 kanzure doesn't pandoc do that automatically?
19:54.14 kanzure docbook<->mediawiki wikitext
19:54.15 starseeker richa: i would suggest that as a later stage of the project
19:55.27 starseeker the problem of lossless translation between markup formats is (I hope!) a much tougher problem than a basic "edit and display this DocBook xml page"
19:56.09 starseeker it's probably worth doing a few quick experiments with pandoc to see what translations to and from our DocBook pages look like
19:57.36 starseeker is frankly skeptical that that sort of automated translation will suffice or be worth the effort - more likely that carrying through on a WYSIWYM editing widget that strives to respect and preserve the original DocBook would be more practical
19:58.03 starseeker but I don't know that for sure
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19:58.28 harshkothari richa: I think you have to define some kind of dictionary for doing vice versa conversion
19:58.47 kanzure i would expect this to be the type of problem that everyone has tried to solve but everyone hate :)
19:59.09 starseeker kanzure: see Beacon for an example of that ;-)
19:59.27 kanzure do i dare..
20:00.13 kanzure the problem with wikitext is that it's really hard to parse later. oh well.
20:00.22 kanzure "the way to parse it is to run php/mediawiki, have fun"
20:01.39 harshkothari kanzure: but again mediawiki parsers very less so it wouldnt be so difficult
20:02.00 javampire is this a discussion about what should be the original format of documentation ? :-)
20:02.39 harshkothari javampire: that is till now skeptic :-)
20:02.41 raj12lnm__ kanzure : i will look if i can set up a travis baswed automated testing.
20:02.42 kanzure format translation ("old guy problems")
20:02.54 kanzure raj12lnm__: i would be open to other forms of continuous integration/testing, too
20:03.18 raj12lnm__ Inhave seen travis working in some oither repo.
20:03.26 starseeker javampire: we're using DocBook for our primary format
20:03.29 raj12lnm__ I will find out how to integrate it.
20:03.47 kanzure raj12lnm__: right now one of the problems is that not all pull requests are tested against windows, so windows is periodically falling behind
20:03.50 raj12lnm__ javampire : hi
20:04.03 javampire starseeker: I would say it's a good choice - but I have not seen the full discussion to know what is this about :-)
20:04.05 raj12lnm__ Ok kanzure.
20:04.18 javampire raj12lnm__: hi Raj !
20:04.36 starseeker javampire: the project context is "how do we edit our DocBook documentation in a web context?"
20:04.41 javampire raj12lnm__: any luck with the VOL ?
20:04.49 raj12lnm__ kanzure : let me introduce myself with you.
20:05.03 javampire starseeker: ok, that's an interesting topic
20:05.20 raj12lnm__ javampire : i have pushed the changes
20:05.25 harshkothari javampire: indeed
20:05.39 raj12lnm__ But it gives an error of unreasonable parameters.
20:05.46 javampire raj12lnm__: did you manage to run a test case ?
20:06.02 raj12lnm__ Yes.
20:06.12 javampire raj12lnm__: let me test too...
20:06.19 raj12lnm__ It gives an error related to tge parametees.
20:06.32 starseeker there's also this project: https://code.google.com/p/docbookeditor/
20:06.45 raj12lnm__ And its hard for me to imagine parameters. :-)
20:06.48 harshkothari clicked
20:08.10 raj12lnm__ javampire : if you could modify the default parameters such that they become "reasonable"
20:08.27 raj12lnm__ I think you will then be able to run the test.
20:08.42 javampire raj: let me test first
20:08.47 raj12lnm__ Ok.
20:09.02 raj12lnm__ As i said it given s error :-)
20:09.12 raj12lnm__ *gives
20:11.01 richa starseeker: What is my first step?
20:11.13 richa 1. creating a web based docbook editor
20:12.00 richa 2. developing a mediawiki extension which converts mediawiki syntax to docbook syntax and vice-versa
20:16.29 javampire starseeker: BTW, is it really needed to edit doc-book in the web ?
20:16.54 brlcad ries: what is the preferred method you'd like them to get in touch with you?
20:17.22 brlcad mpictor: ditto, prefferred contact method (irc, e-mail, ..)
20:18.03 brlcad kintel: ditto, preferred method?
20:18.20 richa starseeker: Can you give me your e-mail id?
20:18.45 brlcad richa: you should join our mailing list instead of directly e-mailing mentors
20:18.59 brlcad that way other mentors have an idea what is being discussed
20:19.23 richa brlcad: yeah, I have already joined the mailing list
20:19.25 mpictor brlcad: contact method for students? IRC is probably best
20:19.31 brlcad mpictor: thx
20:19.57 brlcad richa: as to your question -- which of those two steps is more interesting to you
20:20.26 inderplus_ brlcad: have you done anything about the website repository?
20:20.41 kintel brlcad: irc, mailing list, personal email in that order of preference
20:20.59 brlcad inderplus_: yes
20:21.03 brlcad kintel: thx
20:21.19 ries brlcad: IRC, forum chat or mail, doesn't matter to much
20:21.22 brlcad not putting your personal e-mail, but you're welcome to ;)
20:21.47 brlcad ries: do you want all three listed? wasn't planning on listing forums
20:21.57 brlcad certainly can though if that's better for you
20:22.01 richa brlcad: I am familiar with creating mediawiki extensions since I was an intern at Wikimedia Foundation last year, so I am more comfortable with 2nd one
20:22.16 inderplus_ brlcad: Do mail me the details, I have edited the theme to look almost like our wordpress theme (except the sidebars ofcourse)
20:22.17 ries brlcad: what sort of contact are we talking about?
20:22.29 brlcad richa: then I would totally recommend leveraging that strengths .. it's a big one
20:22.40 brlcad inderplus_: will do
20:22.54 inderplus_ brlcad: Is there anyone else working on wordpress theme ?
20:23.02 inderplus_ thanks :)
20:23.18 brlcad ries: i'm updating our checklist instructions with succinct summary steps, basically telling them where to go to introduce themselves
20:23.30 brlcad inderplus_: not that I'm aware of
20:23.43 ries brlcad: I like a visible introduction.. wouldn't forum not be best?
20:23.52 brlcad inderplus_: I was briefly during GCI, as well as the 2-3 GCI submissions
20:24.06 brlcad I think maths22 has done some good theme inspection too
20:24.36 brlcad ries: if that's what you use, certainly
20:24.44 brlcad we don't use our forums much
20:24.57 brlcad everyone mostly gets directed to IRC or mailing list
20:25.08 brlcad though we do have them and they're sometimes used
20:25.12 ries brlcad: out of curiocity, what do you use for communication? Mailing list?
20:25.28 ries Ahh ok, our forum is a mailing list aswell... so we have both
20:25.50 brlcad yeah, we're on mailman, so no go there ;)
20:26.05 brlcad they need to get that sorted out
20:26.14 brlcad google groups are eating their lunch
20:27.11 brlcad inderplus_: fyi, maths22 is okay if the wp theme is done via svn, but the mediawiki theme should be forked off the existing github repo
20:28.19 brlcad ries: if your forum/mail are one in the same, then should be okay to just list it once, yes?
20:28.25 brlcad or do you want all three listed?
20:28.36 brlcad or label it Forum just to encourage it that way?
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20:30.34 ries brlcad: I would use this one : http://librecad.org/cms/home/get-help/forum.html
20:30.46 ries I have no idea anymore how nable handles mailing list subscriptions only
20:32.00 brlcad trying to get specific, how about: http://forum.librecad.org/LibreCAD-dev-f4361976.html
20:32.01 inderplus_ harmanpreet: I guess we are now pretty sure of vision as well as the technologies regarding OGV, shall I start working on it ? Any tips or some guidance ?
20:33.12 ries brlcad: that's fine with me
20:33.22 brlcad ries: cool, thanks
20:33.32 brlcad should have the checklist done in a few minutes to review
20:34.10 ``Erik huh, some company in germany is trying to remake the lancia stratos: http://www.new-stratos.com/en/
20:35.42 brlcad no way that's going to be US street legal anytime soon
20:36.39 brlcad 0-60 in less than 3.3, nice
20:36.44 mpictor it comes in a 2-wheeled version that you probably *can use in the US ;)
20:36.49 mpictor *can*
20:37.19 brlcad yeah, nobody cares if you die on a motorcycle
20:38.05 mpictor bicycle
20:39.14 ries *all-new Lancia Stratos
20:39.46 javampire what's the top speed you ever achieved driving a car ?
20:40.15 raj12lnm__ 140
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20:40.28 javampire kmh ?
20:40.29 raj12lnm__ Km/h
20:40.35 javampire ok :-)
20:41.04 raj12lnm__ Indian roads but :-P
20:41.46 brlcad about 200km/h
20:42.06 javampire well here on the german highway it's not unusual if a car literally flies by you while you drive 200kmh
20:42.45 javampire but I find it scary
20:42.57 javampire it's no fun anymore...
20:43.07 raj12lnm__ brlcad : have you been to india ?
20:43.13 brlcad raj12lnm__: I wish
20:43.28 raj12lnm__ Plan this summer.
20:43.46 raj12lnm__ I will ask mohit (zero_level) also.
20:44.00 raj12lnm__ We can have a small meetup :-)
20:44.25 brlcad heh, that'd be awesome
20:44.51 TCD Evening.
20:44.59 raj12lnm__ I also exchanged few emails with kesha_
20:45.09 raj12lnm__ She could also join :-)
20:45.44 raj12lnm__ also brlcad : please reply to the email i sent, once you get time. :-)
20:46.34 javampire raj12lnm__: I will help you tomorrow to figure out the param problems by navigating the BRL-CAD C code
20:46.51 raj12lnm__ Ok javampire.
20:46.59 javampire that's a good skill anyway to develop on your own :-)
20:47.11 raj12lnm__ I did navigate the code using grep.
20:47.25 raj12lnm__ But fiund that they are not used.
20:47.47 javampire likely were looking for the wrong things :-)
20:48.03 raj12lnm__ Ok.
20:48.10 raj12lnm__ Reply on the list.
20:48.45 javampire ok
20:50.06 brlcad raj12lnm__: you could try to create a VOL wiki page similar to the EBM page
20:50.20 brlcad if you can document it, you probably understand it ;)
20:50.33 brlcad we have a gci task description for that
20:50.55 javampire Raj, you can try this: find src/ -name '*.c' -exec grep -l 'mk_vol' \{\} \;
20:52.07 javampire ok, that will not help too much, admittedly, but it will give you the file which implements the method
20:52.10 brlcad javampire: pretty sure he's correct that we don't actually call mk_vol() anywhere
20:52.33 javampire yes, but the implementation could give a hint what's the problem
20:52.38 brlcad there's a few of our more "advanced" primitives that are like that
20:52.48 javampire he could search for the error message to see where it is coming from
20:53.05 brlcad superellipsoid is another, point clouds, .
20:53.20 brlcad he's getting an error? (missed somethign)
20:53.21 javampire well most of the remaining ones are like that, I'm definitely fan of low hanging fruits, and those are done ;-)
20:53.40 brlcad gotcha
20:53.50 brlcad ahh, creating a valid vol
20:54.09 brlcad that gets back to using the 'in' command manually with the EBM example to follow
20:54.18 brlcad then trying to understand the vol's params
20:54.21 javampire he gets: "Unreasonable VOL parameters"
20:54.24 brlcad or just ask someone here ;)
20:54.29 brlcad heh
20:54.32 javampire he asked :-)
20:54.41 brlcad slaps raj12lnm__ for being unreasonable
20:55.05 brlcad I mean ask what some prompt from 'in' means
20:55.13 javampire ah ok
20:55.18 brlcad more specific than "I'm getting this error, help"
20:55.27 javampire but I guess in will ask the same as the mk_vol parameters
20:55.52 brlcad almost certainly, but they're slightly more verbose prompts than a variable name
20:55.58 javampire true
20:56.05 brlcad along with the EBM tutorial, should help make sense of them
20:56.21 brlcad since it's params are almost identical
20:56.33 brlcad at least conceptually VERY similar
20:56.40 javampire brlcad: will you answer Raj's email with pointer to that tutorial ?
20:56.47 brlcad making tables in mediawiki really SUCKS
20:57.01 brlcad brlcad.org/wiki/EBM
20:57.21 brlcad I got to get this checklist finished first, gonna be a couple hours
21:02.38 javampire OK, I answered him
21:02.48 brlcad cool thanks
21:02.56 javampire on another topic: what are you using to write doc-book ?
21:03.14 brlcad I use emacs with a docbook-xml mode
21:05.00 javampire I found some time ago syntext-serna to be a cool wysiwyg editor for doc-book, it is not available for download anymore from the makers, but the free version was licensed as GPL3 so I guess it will be still existing somewhere on the net
21:15.47 maths22 brlcad: what I would like even more, however, than wordpress in the svn repo is a separate git repo for that
21:16.35 brlcad maths22: reason for not just putting it all in one place?
21:17.06 maths22 I guess I could use tags instead, but I like the idea of the svn repo being what is live
21:17.26 brlcad i don't care if progress is happening where it happens, but ideally the instructions for setting up a mirror involves as few steps as possible
21:17.32 maths22 in some ways, a release and a devel repo
21:17.41 maths22 right: to clone, use the svn one
21:17.56 maths22 That one would always work, since it would be what is on the live server
21:18.13 brlcad so I guess I don't care what precedes the clone as that's probably what I'd check out to make changes
21:18.30 maths22 Here would be my ideal situation:
21:18.42 maths22 A git repo with two branches: release and devel
21:21.27 maths22 beta would sync with devel, and the live site would sync with release
21:21.34 brlcad I see two common use cases (only?) ... A) I need to roll out some change/update that I want to go live asap or B) I'm trying something out so I set up my own mirror and try things in advance
21:22.11 maths22 I can see how that might make more sense
21:23.07 brlcad now how A and B happen is almost unlimited possibilities, but ideally .. fewer steps is better ;)
21:23.19 brlcad if you want to use git, go for it
21:23.45 brlcad I don't think the detail of revision control system matters for this really much
21:24.31 brlcad could utilize our official github repo for that even, or keep them per user adhoc
21:24.53 brlcad the main site would just need to know who/where to pull from (whether git or svn)
21:26.01 brlcad i'm okay with there being only one branch for starters to keep things simple, or protected like you suggest with the layered syncing
21:26.43 brlcad it's historically REALLY hard to get web devs using revision control, so i'm happy if it exists in any form :)
21:28.12 maths22 I'm thinking master would be dev, and release separate
21:28.43 maths22 my reason for liking the git is that it encourages revision control as one works, rather than just at the end of a big change
21:28.57 maths22 However, at the same time, it would be tested before breaking the main site
21:29.56 brlcad no concern there
21:30.04 brlcad like I said, I don't see that as a concern myself
21:30.07 brlcad people committing "at the end of a big change" are doing svn wrong :)
21:30.12 javampire brlcad: I'm not familiar with the plans you have for the web, but I would really like to see more automatically generated parts of it which come directly from the code, keeping documentation next to the implementation
21:30.31 brlcad whether it happens or not .. personally I commit like a monkey no matter what the scm
21:30.45 brlcad javampire: ditto
21:30.51 javampire the problem with the current web is that it drifts too fast from the code
21:31.07 brlcad that's part of our docbook integration goals .. so we can "compile" our docs and that becomes part of the site
21:31.10 javampire having it close to it would perhaps encourage the coder to keep it up to date...
21:31.12 brlcad and it's all revision controlled
21:31.24 maths22 my other reason for liking the 2 branches is that, if something works on a dev machine, it gets commited to beta
21:31.32 brlcad so when code changes, the docs change, and we can put *source* processes in place to ensure they stay up to date
21:31.39 maths22 then, we know if it works ok before it goes to the main site
21:31.50 javampire cool
21:31.50 brlcad maths22: go for it ;)
21:32.37 maths22 can you add me to the github brlcad org
21:32.49 brlcad maths22: my only quip from earlier is that you said a second "git repo" .. which seems unnecessary to me -- it's just "the web repo" to me
21:32.55 maths22 that way the repo is not a personal one
21:33.04 maths22 I did not mean a second repo
21:33.15 brlcad there's a personal and project one, you might be looking at mine
21:33.24 brlcad ahh, then we're good! :)
21:34.13 maths22 if it works, it would be merged into the "release" branch and pushed again
21:34.25 maths22 https://github.com/BRL-CAD
21:34.32 maths22 that is the org one
21:34.33 brlcad yeah
21:34.38 brlcad username?
21:35.01 maths22 maths22
21:35.04 javampire "This organization has no public repositories." - is this intended ?
21:35.54 brlcad javampire: yeah
21:36.09 maths22 soon there should be one-the web one
21:36.11 brlcad most are hosted on sourceforge or on our server (including our git mirror)
21:36.25 javampire ok
21:36.30 brlcad and I can see moving our web geometry projects to github if that's where folks want to work
21:36.43 maths22 My favorite thing about github over sourceforge are pull requests
21:36.48 javampire well github is quite convenient
21:37.03 maths22 obviously, there are advantages for other reasons the other way
21:37.15 brlcad yes, advantages and disadvantages on both sides
21:37.17 javampire it's definitely easier to follow other's work
21:37.46 brlcad wish sourceforge had the social/comment and code review aspects github has (which has literally nothing to do with git, but makes the site powerful)
21:37.47 maths22 I agree: github has put a lot of effort into a very good UI
21:38.04 maths22 github's power is not in the "git" half, but the "hub" half
21:38.08 brlcad yep
21:38.38 TCD I more or less couldn't care between git, svn, hg, or whatever else; I just like github because it's so sleek
21:38.39 brlcad just needs an svnhub
21:38.51 brlcad or scmhub even better
21:39.01 javampire BTW, you know gitlab ? https://www.gitlab.com/
21:39.05 brlcad let me pick the community interaction profile
21:39.14 brlcad I do now
21:39.56 brlcad a friend of mine wrote Review Board, similar
21:39.59 javampire well I still find git better than svn when it comes to distributed coding
21:40.54 javampire it has a steeper learning curve, but allows a lot more
21:41.07 brlcad I find them both pretty much identical in that regard
21:41.17 brlcad except for offline commits, but I'm basically never offline and haven't been in nearly a decade
21:41.32 javampire I'm commuting 2 hours a day on trains ;-)
21:41.35 maths22 Offline is my favorite aspect about git for robotics club
21:41.50 maths22 we often are connected to robots, but I can commit and worry about sharing later
21:42.15 javampire plus I just stashed my work to test Raj's branch - with svn I'm not sure if there's anything similar short of checking out another copy
21:42.34 maths22 In theory, I like svn's linearity more, but in pratice, I have found git to be useful
21:42.42 maths22 Once I was willing to try it, that is
21:43.15 brlcad I still have a problem with the antisocial traits that it encourages (which is part why it's become so popular, heh)
21:43.33 javampire git ? antisocial ?
21:43.54 starseeker it encourages working off in corners without sharing
21:44.14 brlcad yep, from a big picture perspectives .. remember we're talking about git and not 'hub' ;)
21:44.32 javampire hmm... how is svn different in that respect ?
21:44.51 maths22 If you use the revision control at all, it is inherently public immediately
21:44.54 brlcad you have to interact and discuss because your work is basically auto-pushed to everyone else interested
21:44.57 javampire oh, you mean you can't commit locally
21:44.58 brlcad active participation instead of passive
21:45.51 starseeker look at linenoise, for example: https://github.com/antirez/linenoise
21:45.53 javampire but git in turn allows you to track multiple remotes, so you can in fact switch between the work of all your peers
21:45.57 starseeker 147 forks on github
21:46.17 starseeker some of them add significant functionality
21:46.43 brlcad basically, you don't have to talk .. so many don't
21:46.45 starseeker but you'll have to look through them manually and "pick and choose", because the work of integrating those improvements back into the "main" project is undone
21:46.59 brlcad that's seen as a strength, and I don't dispute that for some situations
21:47.02 javampire and there's no "master" branch which regularly integrates the rest ?
21:47.07 brlcad but I would claim that it's inherently antisocial
21:47.32 javampire I mean it's all management
21:47.40 starseeker all git forks are 'equal' by design - a "master" fork is up to the community
21:47.57 javampire if there is somebody who pushes the changes in a master branch, then it will work
21:48.22 starseeker that's why I cited linenoise - proof that it doesn't always happen
21:48.45 brlcad antisocial != bad ... but it's whether communication is suggested (git master fork) or doesn't happen (most common git use case) or required (svn)
21:48.48 javampire with svn the changes wouldn't have happened at all ;-)
21:48.57 brlcad sure and maybe that's a good thing :)
21:50.04 javampire ok, I'm not sure what to think - but my gut feeling is that lots of random changes + selection = better than no change
21:50.32 javampire kind of evolution applied to coding
21:50.48 brlcad it means the groups that do communicate and coalesce are inherently collaborating, cooperating with mutual interests, often for a greater good than their own
21:52.36 javampire in any case I still think git will allow more collaboration, even if it doesn't mandates it
21:53.11 brlcad I think gitHUB does that more than GIThub ;)
21:53.36 javampire could be...
21:53.36 brlcad imagine svn under the hood and most of the merits people associate with it still apply
21:54.03 javampire well not really, I can fork git repos on my gitLAB too
21:54.39 javampire but I'm not sure how that would work with a SVNhub
21:55.03 *** join/#brlcad TCD (~TheCommie@152.78.235.20)
21:55.03 javampire and you can be sure I would have done much less progress with svn
21:55.59 brlcad there's nothing hard about forking an svn repo
21:56.25 javampire yes, but it's much harder to push-pull
21:56.51 javampire and yes, github is helping there
21:57.02 brlcad in a non-trivial way
21:57.30 brlcad i'd argue that it's actually easier with svn if you had a central authority like github dishing out the forks
21:57.42 javampire ok, so the hub is important, but still, git is better for this scenario then svn
21:58.08 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:LenardslvxbdxchqPostley * 6551 /wiki/Gadgets34creative_ideas: Created page with "Technology Blog, your everyday technology, Over the last years, technology has been rapidly changing and expanding in every field imaginable the main purpose of technology is ..."
21:58.11 maths22 brlcad: let me know when I am added, and I will set up the repo
21:58.18 brlcad wasn't making a statement about that either way ;)
21:58.19 maths22 I'll also hunt down the spam
21:58.34 brlcad just that there is an inherent antisocial nature (whether good or bad)
21:58.55 brlcad that doesn't exist in svn by the nature of the design (enforced push)
21:59.18 brlcad which almost certainly does shut off activity
21:59.25 brlcad whether that's good or bad ;)
21:59.28 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Maths22 * 0 /wiki/User:LenardslvxbdxchqPostley: Spamming w/ bad username
21:59.37 javampire ok, I was just about to say that too :-)
21:59.47 brlcad personally, I think there are fantastic use cases for both
21:59.53 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Maths22 * 0 /wiki/Gadgets34creative_ideas: Spam
21:59.58 javampire for me it's clear: I'm working on the train ~1 hour a day
21:59.59 brlcad neither answers every social dynamic
22:00.27 javampire I have SVN repos on a stick, so I can check in there too
22:00.58 brlcad ironically and anecdotally, the folks I've saw adopt git the hardest (sans github) when it came out were the more difficult people I knew
22:01.02 javampire but I still like git for all the tools it offers...
22:01.13 brlcad and the dev teams I knew that rejected it were already communicating fantastically
22:02.17 brlcad ben collins-sussman had a great article on how things would unfold like 10 years ago, and it pretty much was spot on
22:02.20 brlcad eery :)
22:03.13 javampire I had difficulty learning git at first, because it has too many ways to use it
22:03.47 javampire there's no one best way which you can learn from a 10 mins tutorial
22:03.54 brlcad yeah, it's biggest detriment is the user interface
22:04.07 brlcad ``Erik: what was that ping line? :)
22:04.35 javampire I'm not talking about GUIs, I never used one for source code control
22:04.46 brlcad either
22:05.22 javampire git simply has too many concepts compared to SVN or CVS, and many more scenarios
22:05.30 maths22 I personally like sorucetree for a git gui
22:05.39 maths22 r/sorucetree/sourcetree
22:06.01 javampire and there's not one recommended way to use it, so it is hard for a beginner to figure out what is the right way to use it
22:06.56 javampire github is recommending you a work-flow, explaining each step of it, and that's why it's succesful
22:07.50 javampire in a certain way brl-cad has similar problems with complexity :-)
22:10.25 brlcad yeah, sort of
22:11.06 javampire my first impression of brl-cad was: CSG, nice concept, I like it... so where do I start ? Get a tutorial, build a model... ok, I need now a primitive I didn't find in the tutorial, where should I look for it ? It was not always easy to find the answers.
22:11.08 brlcad in any way, I think those two are basically going to eventually converge
22:11.31 brlcad git will end up with automatic pushes (without you having to manually set it up)
22:11.38 brlcad svn will end up with offline commits
22:12.06 javampire this reminds me of a joke of how english and german will be the same language in some years ;-)
22:12.06 brlcad and probably a means to push/pull to remotes
22:12.31 brlcad a bigger chasm there ;)
22:13.01 brlcad there's very few features that separate git and svn that couldn't be resolved within a couple years if someone pushed
22:13.14 brlcad really within a year
22:14.13 javampire ok, so let's settle with: both have advantages and disadvantages, and the hub is making the difference ;-)
22:15.19 brlcad hehe
22:15.26 brlcad we should write an article
22:15.55 brlcad okay, so back to point .. maths22 adding you to the project, have at it
22:19.00 brlcad maths22: added
22:19.19 maths22 thanks
22:20.23 maths22 I think you need to create a repo to add to the webdev team
22:30.20 brlcad maths22: what name?
22:30.26 brlcad "web"?
22:31.30 brlcad "magic-juju"?
22:32.42 brlcad created web
22:33.20 maths22 sounds good
22:34.57 kanzure brlcad: irc, email, phone in that order, although all are okay
22:35.38 maths22 Could I have, for the repo, admin access to set it up for a few hours?
22:35.56 maths22 You can then remove it.
22:39.31 brlcad maths22: let me know, but I think you're already set up with full access
22:40.45 brlcad maths22: see if you can get to the add webhooks section
22:41.35 maths22 I can't
22:42.24 maths22 https://help.github.com/articles/what-are-the-different-access-permissions
22:42.39 maths22 Admin Access Teams: Repository access
22:52.54 brlcad yeah, I thought I'd selected that
22:53.01 brlcad but apparently only set it to Read
22:53.01 brlcad fixed
22:53.07 maths22 thanks
23:13.53 *** join/#brlcad FreezingCold (~FreezingC@135.0.41.14)
23:48.47 *** join/#brlcad notify-web (~notify-we@192.30.252.46)
23:48.48 notify-web [13web] 15maths22 pushed 3 new commits to 06master: 02http://git.io/kwZupA
23:48.48 notify-web 13web/06master 14fe84bbb 15Jacob Burroughs: added .htaccess
23:48.48 notify-web 13web/06master 148c51f03 15Jacob Burroughs: added mediawiki
23:48.48 notify-web 13web/06master 1484cfe80 15Jacob Burroughs: added wordpress
23:48.48 *** part/#brlcad notify-web (~notify-we@192.30.252.46)
23:49.08 brlcad awesome
23:52.07 maths22 I like the notifier

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