IRC log for #brlcad on 20140404

00:56.01 brlcad DarkCalf: howdy
00:56.56 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60375 (brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/encode.c brlcad/trunk/src/libbu/tests/bu_encode.c): Make a stab at escaping for Tcl. The real test will be assignment and recovery from Tcl variables.
00:57.07 brlcad starseeker: quoting and escaping go hand-in-hand and are the general way to deal with it without making it language-specific
01:02.00 brlcad intentionally tried to avoid introducing a notion of "encoding" as that can get very messy
01:06.21 brlcad starseeker: note that what I started on encode.c ... I eventually started moving away from that in favor of the more generalized interface in escape.c
01:06.50 brlcad that may be what you need anyways -- you pass an expression of char(s) to escape
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01:51.02 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60376 brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_match.c: Try the tcl-ified bu_vls_encode in db_regexp_match_all
02:03.42 Zhao_Anqing starseeker: hi
02:04.30 Zhao_Anqing I facetize all models of toyjeep.g and it cause a nmg_bool failure.
02:04.48 Zhao_Anqing So that's a bug should be fixed?
02:04.55 brlcad yep
02:05.09 brlcad any failure is one that we'd hope to someday fixed
02:06.03 Zhao_Anqing OK. get it. Let me try to debug this.
02:06.18 brlcad don't spend more than a couple hours on it
02:06.24 brlcad nmg debugging can be quite complicated
02:08.37 Zhao_Anqing That's fine.
02:21.36 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 60377 brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: the problem is really the result should not be a simple string. it needs to be a result set and the calling application can format the result however it needs to (so there's no need for encoding or quoting whatsoever)
02:21.40 brlcad Zhao_Anqing: feel free to discuss or ask questions -- that's why we're here ;)
02:23.32 Zhao_Anqing Thanks you very much. That's really kind of you.
02:23.36 Zhao_Anqing ^-^
02:24.58 brlcad starseeker: haha, I just read 60371 ... that's very close to the thought processes that let to bu_str_escape()
02:27.20 Zhao_Anqing What's the meaning of the dot-line, when I display a model?
02:27.42 Zhao_Anqing for example, the pink car.
02:27.47 Notify 03BRL-CAD:brlcad * 60378 brlcad/trunk/include/bu/vls.h: see bu_str_escape() as it evolved out of a nearly identical thought process
02:27.53 brlcad a dotted line is usually something being subtracted
02:32.45 starseeker brlcad: OK, what I shoved into encode should probably be the guts of escape then...
02:33.09 starseeker or may already be...
02:33.51 starseeker ah, probably better
02:34.31 starseeker bingo
02:35.04 starseeker brlcad: so... is there a reason bu_str_escape and friends haven't been used to swat the Tcl command line issues?
02:35.41 starseeker also, what are we going to do with encode/decode? honest-to-goodness hex and base64 support?
02:36.11 starseeker is thinking to use that to let breps survive g-asc -> asc-g roundtrip
02:36.56 brlcad starseeker: no reason at all ...
02:36.59 brlcad I started with the quote approach just like you did
02:37.06 brlcad and realized the limitations/problems
02:37.16 brlcad started working on general escaping, got that implemented
02:37.22 brlcad then got pulled off onto something else
02:37.32 starseeker ah :-)
02:37.45 starseeker OK, I'll try to clean up my mess and use bu_str_escape
02:37.55 brlcad the intent is/was to go back and either scrap the quoting/encoding interface or make it call escape
02:38.44 brlcad I wasn't willing to just rip out bu_vls_encode() because it was far better tested and already working very well
02:39.17 brlcad bu_str_escape should be good to go, but all I have to prove it is .. butkus
02:39.19 starseeker the potential increase in importing makes resolving the funny-name issues a priority now
02:39.37 starseeker nods - OK, I'll put the encode/decode logic back the way it was
02:39.55 brlcad I don't think it matters much
02:41.26 brlcad I'm inclined to kill that API for simplicity if we end up not using it because it is probably directly replaced with bu_str_escape()
02:41.36 brlcad now *encoding* is still a completely different topic
02:41.47 brlcad if we do end up needing that, api will need to be revisited
02:41.53 starseeker nods
02:42.20 brlcad I had trouble seeing a bonefide need outside of the geometry service
02:43.01 brlcad the crux of this particular issue with "ls" is a GED api issue .. that it can't/doesn't return a set
02:43.22 brlcad that's actually not so hard to fix
02:43.32 starseeker wants to turn the binary serialization of brep objects into base64 text for asc output. We don't have the resources to design an asc representation for something as complex as brep right now, but we need to do *something* to let asc continue to function
02:43.47 starseeker brlcad: oh, you mean rework libged to not rely on strings?
02:44.01 brlcad well it's still a string (a set of strings)
02:44.11 starseeker argv array?
02:44.52 brlcad that or an opaque struct that contains an array, accessed by a func
02:45.15 brlcad something like ged_append_result(...)
02:45.18 starseeker winces. that's a major rework of the ged API
02:45.25 starseeker and its callees
02:45.26 brlcad nah, it's like just a line or two
02:46.02 brlcad all the CALLEEs are a pita to make them go from bu_vls_printf() and Tcl_AppendResult() to ged_whatever()
02:46.20 starseeker we'll still need the tcl escaping for the object names too...
02:46.40 starseeker regardless of the container, if the strings can't make it into tcl variables intact weird things are likely
02:46.45 brlcad sure, but ged doesn't need to do that
02:46.49 brlcad tcl can do that
02:47.06 brlcad rather, it's the application calling libged's responsibility
02:47.13 starseeker ah
02:47.13 brlcad ged just returns the data
02:47.18 brlcad the app formats it
02:47.49 starseeker OK, so as long as ged gives it to the app in an unambiguous form (instead of the inherently ambiguous string) the app has a fair shot at doing that
02:47.52 brlcad say it goes into a list or menu or dialog or needs quotes or is unicode-encoded or whatever.. that's the apps problem
02:48.02 brlcad right
02:48.39 brlcad I *think* we can get away with a simple null-terminated homogenous array of strings for our current commands
02:48.51 starseeker I think that *does* involve some changes to ged functions though - everywhere a results string is assembled in libged, something different will have to be done - either append to the argv or stockpile in the struct that the function will call...
02:48.53 brlcad haven't exhaustively looked, but think that'll be fine
02:49.07 brlcad exactly!
02:49.11 brlcad and that's a few hundred lines
02:49.18 brlcad not terrible conversion though
02:49.29 brlcad it's all the places that reference ged_result_str
02:49.50 brlcad that's why I'm inclined to turn them all into funcs and an opaque pointer
02:50.02 brlcad so if we want to change it again, the app doesn't know or care
02:50.05 brlcad all internal to libged
02:50.15 starseeker um. Makes sense.
02:50.25 brlcad is glad to be feeling slightly better that he can think clearly again
02:50.28 starseeker heh
02:50.40 starseeker if you feel like stubbing out the API, I can start the grunt work
02:50.47 brlcad I did laugh when I saw your comment
02:51.12 starseeker really doesn't want the STEP improvements to run smack into "the GUI can't do squat with this import" issues...
02:51.32 starseeker oh, when i started down the path you'd already walked?
02:54.36 brlcad no, your musings in the header about ... "well, the caller might want to escape different chars ... and if they do that then this should probably be different api .. and if it's different api, probably doesn't need to be using vls strings ... and so on"
02:55.28 starseeker ah :-)
02:55.43 brlcad that's basically the thought process I went through
02:55.56 brlcad albeit over a couple days I think
02:58.51 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60379 (brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ls.c brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_match.c brlcad/trunk/src/tclscripts/archer/ArcherCore.tcl): Pull the chances impacting command functionality - should be using bu_str_escape and friends to do the tcl quoting, and should be happening at the app level once we teach libged to return something that lets us operate properly on a list of object names (problem is libged
02:58.53 Notify returning a space separated list, when spaces are in the object names it needs to be returning as well...)
03:02.44 starseeker brlcad: will the container be a void pointer, or do we expose some bu structure?
03:03.59 starseeker (bu_list or bu_ptbl for easy iterating perhaps?)
03:08.04 starseeker we may want to expose bu_str_escape as a tcl command, like we do with bu_brlcad_data... Been meaning to do that for bu_temp_file as well
03:49.49 hcurtis brlcad: Hi, Sean. My revised proposal is on Melange.
04:08.59 brlcad starseeker: I was thinking a ged structure, not an existing bu container just so it can be changed at will, with accessor functions defined
04:09.42 brlcad can maybe start with a simple null-terminated argv IFF we can assume there will be no NULL results coming back
04:10.04 brlcad hcurtis: glad to hear it
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08:26.10 infinite__ bu_vls_printf is doing what exactly? PS: I am reading the relevant code but would be helpful if someone who has worked on it could just brief me once. Where is it exactly printing?
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13:45.35 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:William.ng * 0 /wiki/User:William.ng:
13:58.20 starseeker brlcad: so, struct ged_results with the contents accessed by functions?
14:00.00 starseeker e.g. char *ged_result_string(struct ged_results *ret) ?
14:00.32 starseeker size_t ged_result_cnt(struct ged_results *ret)
14:01.21 starseeker char *ged_result_get(struct ged_results *ret, size_t index)
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14:13.42 infinite__ brlcad : Hi! I have been researching and reading the code for voxelization and raytracing, I would essentially like to improve the efficiency of generating voxels, by introducing parallelism as done in ray tracing, would it be nice implementing something resembling http://jcgt.org/published/0002/01/02/paper.pdf?
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14:21.44 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60380 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/mged/dm-osg.cpp: Include fbio.h
14:38.06 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60381 (brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h): Start working on an API for ged results returning. Way to introduce it incrementally will be to have a (part of ged_private.h, probably not needed as public API) function ged_results_add which updates both ged_results and the return vls at the same time - that way everything will look the same to functions expecting the
14:38.08 Notify results string until we can update them. Can we get away with having *just* the struct ged_results; decaration in ged.h and let the more specific definition with (for the moment) the bu_ptbl as contents live in ged_private.h?
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14:43.46 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60382 brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h: Not sure about returning one string for everything - maybe a worthwhile convenience, but a bit dubious given a simple iteration and vls build can produce the same result...
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14:58.29 d_rossberg infinite__: the paper descibes a method for triangulized boundary representations we don't have ... or i'm missing something?
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15:32.13 Notify 03BRL-CAD:d_rossberg * 60383 (rt^3/trunk/include/brlcad/FileDatabase.h rt^3/trunk/src/coreInterface/FileDatabase.cpp): itf the file doesn't exist create it
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17:35.10 brlcad interesting: http://code.google.com/p/muparserx/
17:36.12 brlcad infinite__: hello .. is this for gsoc or on your own?
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17:37.00 brlcad infinite__: that paper assumes polygonal geometry
17:37.42 brlcad ah and what d_rossberg noted too but when you weren't here
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18:18.04 infinite__ brlcad : was unable to connect, sorry for that, there is some problem in LAN connection here, would be fixed soon. That was essentially not for gsoc, I realize the article is not intersecting, but I think we could make use of http://luebke.us/publications/eg09.pdf to boost efficiency
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18:35.11 brlcad infinite__: you are missing the repeated responses that the paper involves polygonal geometry, which we don't have
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18:46.24 infinite__ brlcad: I think I have understood something wrong, can you brief me about the concept of bounding box
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19:08.30 brlcad infinite: it's a box that fits around something
19:08.40 infinite PS: The paper http://luebke.us/publications/eg09.pdf is different from the one I cited before,
19:08.43 brlcad your question is both confusing and concerning
19:09.50 brlcad I know that paper, same comment still applies
19:11.54 brlcad at least to an extent, we could benefit from having a SAH implemented per primitive to improve spatial partitioning
19:13.04 brlcad infinite: I think you need to explain some context, what you're hoping to decide or research or achieve
19:18.54 infinite There lies scope to improve the speed of rt. Instead of the way we are following right now, the algorithm presented in paper , if implemented for rt_bound_tree would fasten up the process.
19:24.46 brlcad do you know how much of performance is currently consumed or affected by the performance rt_bound_tre() ?
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19:33.06 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60384 (brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_util.c): apparently the other 'append' functions weren't used anywhere.
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19:36.06 brlcad infinite: you're certainly on a good track, but know that any work to improve performance should be preceded by performance profiling
19:37.12 brlcad that said, for the voxelization program, you should start first by just making it parallel (we have many examples of this in brl-cad))
19:42.44 infinite using semaphores, as in raytracing, right? But genuinely speaking, I am doubtful if that much would suffice as the work for GSoC project, so I am analysing what additionally I can do
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19:55.01 brlcad infinite: yes and no ... if you parallelize well enough, there are no semaphores
19:58.18 brlcad there's a LOT that g-voxel could be made to do that would be incredibly useful
20:01.37 brlcad support for output formats, conversion of voxelized data back into geometry (voxel-g)
20:04.07 brlcad improvement of our voxel geometry data type (vol)
20:04.08 brlcad etc
20:04.21 brlcad should talk to daniel about his thoughts if you're looking for other suggestions
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20:19.28 brlcad starseeker: you can't just write into a vls's char*
20:19.57 brlcad Notify: hello
20:22.29 ``Erik well, you can, but you're setting yourself up for Bad Things(tm)
20:23.04 ``Erik !notify day
20:23.05 Notify BRL-CAD: starseeker:14, brlcad:2, d_rossberg:1
20:23.07 Notify BRL-CAD Wiki: Sean:2, Clouddrift:2, William.ng:1
20:24.27 infinite For voxel-g, you said once marching cubes sucks for geometries with discontinuties, what about splatting?
20:24.58 ``Erik what do you mean by "splatting"? O.o
20:31.04 infinite Splatting is yet another algorithm for volume visualization, "Splatting performs a front to back object order traversal of the voxels in volumetric dataset. Each voxel's contribution to the image is calculated and composited using a series of table lookups" as described.
20:35.17 ``Erik hm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_rendering#Splatting
20:37.15 ``Erik doesn't seem appropriate for g-voxel to me from that minimal description *shrug* but I'm not digging deep, too much other stuff to worry about right now
20:43.10 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60385 (brlcad/trunk/include/ged.h brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged.c and 4 others): Make a stab at adding a functional ged_results interface. One consequence of this (or, more correctly, of the need to quote object names in applications) will be that all formatting of output (like, say, the multi-column output from ls) will need to become the responsibility of the calling application, since the
20:43.12 Notify assembly of the final string for such multi-column output can't happen without the strings being pre-quoted.
20:43.51 brlcad infinite: you don't get geometry from splatting, you get a visualization
20:44.11 brlcad so yeah, maybe for interactive visualization of our vol primitive
20:44.27 brlcad or for visualizing the results from g-voxel
20:44.52 brlcad but the utility is practically non-existent without all of the application infrastructure so that it's easy to use
20:45.01 hcurtis Hello, everyone. I'd like to create a patch, but I've run into problems getting set up. I've read the information on the wiki, but there seem to be multiple approaches. I'm learning about Subversion, Aptitude, CMake, etc.
20:45.14 hcurtis I'm an entry-level programmer (but a fast learner). I use a Windows 7 PC that has Eclipse and Visual Studio. Also, I've downloaded Virtual Box and the BRL-CAD VM disk image.
20:45.29 starseeker brlcad: where did I do that?
20:45.30 brlcad infinite: I'd be more inclined to look at leveraging some PCL algorithm to reconstrust surfaces
20:45.35 hcurtis I'm hoping that someone can advise me on the best approach for my situation. I'd like to get set up and start working on a patch as soon as possible.
20:45.44 starseeker doesn't doubt it, but not immediately clicking
20:46.12 brlcad _ged_results_add()
20:46.34 brlcad hi henry
20:47.02 starseeker uh... I'm inserting strings into a table there?
20:47.09 hcurtis brlcad: Hi, Sean.
20:47.50 starseeker brlcad: I guess my comment isn't clear, hang on
20:48.04 brlcad ahh, I see starseeker
20:48.11 brlcad the comment sounded like you were writing into it
20:48.20 brlcad should be marked const
20:48.41 brlcad should always be on the lookout for const, not just as an afterthought :)
20:50.10 brlcad hcurtis: I see that's the exact same inquiry you left on the mailing list -- you need to ask a more specific question
20:50.29 brlcad hcurtis: in actuality, you didn't ask a single question.
20:51.03 hcurtis brlcad: Ok.
20:51.04 brlcad asking for open-ended advice is not efficient, there are FAR too many variables and issues
20:51.26 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60386 brlcad/trunk/src/libged/ged_private.h: Clarfiy the header comment a bit.
20:51.30 brlcad get set up and try to do something, discuss as you go along, ask questions if you get stuck
20:52.28 starseeker brlcad: I think I set that up so the guts aren't exposed - bu_ptbl was convenient for me for testing, but I was trying to do the "hide the details" approach
20:52.38 hcurtis brlcad: That's the problem. I _am_ stuck.
20:53.14 starseeker hcurtis: trying to do... which task?
20:53.35 hcurtis brlcad: And my best guess is that you and the other mentors want this patch ASAP.
20:54.54 hcurtis starseeker: I need to be able to compile the code for my patch.
20:55.10 starseeker what problem is your patch trying to address?
20:56.43 hcurtis I am going to attempt one involving the implementation of a primitive surface area function.
20:56.48 starseeker brlcad: I think I've also got an approach that will allow a gradual migration off of the result_str - perhaps we could even keep it in some cases, although it's not immediately clear that would be a good idea
20:57.06 starseeker hcurtis: OK, there are lots of examples
20:57.41 brlcad hcurtis: yes, any patches really need to be in by sunday to have any bearing
20:58.04 brlcad ideally today or tomorrow
20:58.18 starseeker hcurtis: look at the existing functions for primitives that have them - the new one will be hooked in the same way, but the "guts" will be different
20:58.29 hcurtis starseeker: But I'm not actually there working on the patch yet. I've never done this before, and I'm still trying to get my computer ready to do it.
20:58.45 brlcad now you're getting more specific! :)
20:58.45 starseeker hcurtis: can you build BRL-CAD?
20:59.08 hcurtis brlcad: You're teaching me well.
20:59.29 brlcad hcurtis: see my reply on the mailing list, I think that might help
20:59.43 hcurtis starseeker: That's my problem. I don't yet know.
20:59.50 starseeker uh...
21:00.25 brlcad hcurtis: so try to build, see where you get stuck
21:00.34 brlcad you said you read the wiki page
21:00.41 brlcad it provides step-by-step instruction
21:00.43 starseeker how can you not know yet? Where are you on this process? http://brlcad.org/wiki/Compiling
21:00.55 hcurtis starseeker: I'm an entry-level programmer, and I'm trying to learn and get better.
21:01.31 starseeker hcurtis: that's fine, but the steps on that page are straightforward
21:01.52 hcurtis brlcad: Thank you very much, Sean. I appreciate all that you've done to help me.
21:01.55 brlcad that doesn't let you get away with not reading the documentation and attempting the steps :) ... if you've attempted and something didn't work, speak up and ask about it :)
21:02.39 brlcad we're here to help, but ultimately you have to do the work without us telling you what to do
21:03.12 brlcad when you get stuck, you need to figure out what you're actually stuck on and ask for help
21:03.18 starseeker ``Erik: cool notify feature by the way
21:03.30 brlcad note that getting stuck implies you *tried* something that got you into that situation
21:04.31 hcurtis brlcad: I understand. I was never asking for a free pass. I've already spent hours working on this, and I realize that the clock is ticking. I knew it was time to ask for help.
21:04.38 brlcad starseeker: I find it ironic that you've become so enamored with ptbls .. never would have guessed that
21:05.17 brlcad hcurtis: that's good (well not good that you spent HOURS, but good that you realize and are asking...), now you just need to figure out what your question is
21:06.12 starseeker brlcad: for whatever reason, I find them more intuitive to deal with than bu_list structures...
21:06.34 starseeker brlcad: I suppose I'm over-using them lately...
21:06.56 starseeker probably could use bu_list for some of this
21:08.24 brlcad would be interesting to see what the performance curve of each of these looks like
21:08.44 brlcad insertions, deletions, serial lookup, random lookup
21:09.35 starseeker out of curiosity, which "container" would you have expected me to gravitate towards? (besides the comfy world of STL containers...)
21:10.13 hcurtis starseeker: Here's where I am in the list at http://brlcad.org/wiki/Compiling. I was about to download CMake, but I then recalled seeing a BRL-CAD wiki page saying that I can use Eclipse, which I already have, to compile. Do I still need CMake?
21:10.24 starseeker yes
21:11.18 starseeker CMake generates the outputs that other tools (Eclipse, make, ninja, MSVC, etc.) use
21:11.40 hcurtis starseeker: Ok
21:12.12 starseeker would suggest following the procedure as documented on the wiki - it's going to use a fairly minimal subset of the tools you *can* use
21:12.32 starseeker once you can do that, *then* look at options like Eclipse if they are helpful
21:12.53 starseeker but the question is Eclipse vs. straight-up command line make, not vs. CMake
21:13.27 starseeker and even that question is not one to spend time on
21:13.51 starseeker use Make unless you have some reason to do otherwise (like a lot of skill with Eclipse)
21:14.07 hcurtis starseeker: I understand. Thank you.
21:22.35 brlcad hcurtis: and if you hit a wall trying to follow the steps exactly as written, try them again using the VM image .. that should work exactly as-is and get you up the fastest but obviously with an emulated environment
21:27.21 hcurtis brlcad: Thank you. And that points to one of my underlying questions. Would it be better to use that VM environment or my usual Windows 7 environment? I wondered whether I should avoid using the VM if possible because I have only a little experience with VMs.
21:28.08 starseeker Windows is a difficult environment to work with for BRL-CAD - if that's your normal setup, I'd recommend the VM
21:28.47 hcurtis brlcad: I'm not saying I'm scared of VMs or something...rather, I just need to get this patch to you without running into any more complications.
21:29.05 starseeker I definitely would *not* recommend trying CMake+Eclipse on Windows 7 - that configuration is completely untested, to the best of my knowledge, and almost certain to break
21:29.45 hcurtis starseeker: I see. Thank you.
21:31.39 starseeker hcurtis: you will find as you program more that Windows is kind of an alien landscape to many (even most) open source programmers - it's far more likely for them to be using an open source OS
21:32.48 starseeker so, generally speaking, Windows issues will be harder to debug and harder to find help with. BRL-CAD is rather unusual in the level of support it provides for MSVC
21:33.32 hcurtis starseeker and brlcad: Now, *this* is the kind of insider info I was looking for. I did read the wiki pages...however, a lot of this stuff is new to me. I am trying. I definitely appreciate your help.
21:34.11 starseeker google and wikipedia are your friends - if you don't understand terms, don't be afraid to research them
21:34.33 starseeker you will be doing that as long as you are doing programming - the only thing that will change is what you are studying
21:35.15 hcurtis starseeker: Absolutely
21:36.12 starseeker If you didn't know what CMake was, for example, you should have taken the time to read their website when you went to download it.
21:38.13 starseeker if you want the voice of experience, I can assure you that you won't get away with *not* understanding things - you'll just end up taking longer than you had to before you are forced to learn them anway
21:39.41 starseeker s/anway/anyway
21:40.10 starseeker makes a note to suggest building a spellchecker into irssi to ``Erik...
21:42.48 hcurtis starseeker: You are very right. As I was telling Sean, however, I've already spent hours getting nowhere. I realize that the clock is ticking, and I knew it was time to ask for help. I'm not the type to look for a free pass.
21:50.49 hcurtis starseeker: Anyway, thank you once again for your information and advice.
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22:33.40 ``Erik starseeker: what, the statistics reporting? been there since just about the beginning... https://github.com/erikg/cl-cia/blob/master/irc.lisp line 124
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22:38.35 ``Erik heh, when(spelling_errors>1)printf("Learn to spel, fool!\n"); /* spell misspelled on purpose */
22:48.06 infinite_ brlcad : Guess moving least squares would do well. www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pointclouds.org%2Fassets%2Ficra2012%2Fsurface.pdf&ei=DC4_U7KxComErAet44DgDA&usg=AFQjCNEA0LQcvrI461SsiZIZkgWn7Jq6AA&sig2=LGaAKh7isQnfu5HbjYADqA&bvm=bv.64367178,d.bmk
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