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| 03:03.19 | starseeker | wonders why dime builds so many sub-libraries |
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| 04:20.04 | brlcad | hcurtis: are/were you working on a different patch? |
| 04:27.59 | hcurtis | brlcad: Hi, Sean. I do want to work on another patch. Unfortunately, I also have a big school project I am working on and have to finish. By the way, I thought you had said that at this point it was too late for any more patches. |
| 04:32.02 | brlcad | it's like saying it's a bit late to be eating dinner .. still hungry |
| 04:35.52 | hcurtis | brlcad: I'm not sure whether you saw the note I left for you in the channel the other day. I made some final improvements to my proposal, and I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate all of the great information and help you've given me during this process. |
| 04:44.37 | brlcad | hcurtis: yes, I did see that note |
| 04:45.04 | brlcad | I always read the backlog .. |
| 04:45.18 | hcurtis | brlcad: Cool |
| 04:45.19 | brlcad | might not comment but I always read it |
| 04:46.17 | hcurtis | brlcad: At any rate, if you have any ideas about something I that I could get to you quickly (my best guess is that you need it ASAP) that would give you more information about me and my coding ability, please tell me. |
| 04:47.56 | brlcad | we just haven't seen any code from you, so there's nothing but kind words and good intentions to go on |
| 04:48.55 | brlcad | I gather with your inexperience, that you're probably not familiar yet with using a debugger |
| 04:49.10 | brlcad | so that knocks out some more immediate ideas |
| 04:53.38 | hcurtis | brlcad: Any comments on the patch I submitted? I'd mainly like to know what I did wrong on it so that I can improve and make a better patch next time. |
| 04:53.54 | brlcad | I commented on what was wrong with it |
| 04:54.08 | brlcad | a patch that cannot be applied is useless ;) |
| 04:55.26 | hcurtis | brlcad: I understand. I'll go to Sourceforge right now and see your comments. |
| 04:56.22 | brlcad | if you want something specific to look into that should take less than an hour, you could run "make test" and notice that there are several that currently fail. figure out why they fail, make a change that fixes them, create and submit patch file |
| 04:57.03 | brlcad | why ONE of them is failing, not all of them |
| 04:58.43 | hcurtis | brlcad: I appreciate the feedback about the patch. |
| 05:04.59 | hcurtis | brlcad: Also, thank you very much for the idea about running "make test." I'll get on it right now and try my best. I'm fully aware that this might be my last chance. |
| 05:10.06 | brlcad | hcurtis: you really don't have to be so continuously thankful |
| 05:10.26 | hcurtis | brlcad: Ok |
| 05:10.30 | brlcad | we do this all the time and will with or without thanks, so you can chill :) |
| 05:11.07 | hcurtis | brlcad: Lol |
| 05:11.23 | hcurtis | brlcad: Cool |
| 05:15.02 | hcurtis | brlcad: But before we let that issue go for good...just so you know, all of my words of thanks have been SINCERE. I'm learning a lot from you guys, and it's been great interacting with professionals. |
| 05:15.56 | hcurtis | brlcad: I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable or get on your nerves. |
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| 06:06.21 | hcurtis | brlcad: Here's what's going on. I did the build configuration and started the build. The problem is that it's really slow and might take hours. Unfortunately, I'm doing it inside a VM on a Windows 7 OS. (If selected for GSoC, I _WILL_ invest in a quad-core Debian 64-bit machine immediately.) |
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| 06:57.27 | pandrei | Hello, I'm getting the following error when building rt^3 branch |
| 06:57.29 | pandrei | /usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/include/brlcad/./bu/bu_tcl.h:29:58: fatal error: tcl.h: No such file or directory |
| 06:57.29 | pandrei | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:58.04 | pandrei | from what I remember, I had to include something in PATH. I included brlcad-build/bin |
| 06:58.10 | pandrei | does it need the source dir too? |
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| 13:58.18 | brlcad | hcurtis: you didn't get on my nerves at all, just don't want you to feel like it's necessary to continually express gratitude is all ;) |
| 13:59.09 | brlcad | hcurtis: open source currency is time and effort ... |
| 13:59.12 | brlcad | hcurtis: put in time and effort, do great things |
| 13:59.24 | brlcad | hcurtis: that will show me how appreciative you are ;) |
| 14:05.59 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60419 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/INSTALL brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/configure and 6 others): Back up to r60395 - preparing to try the texture based rendering with the working-but-flickering Tk window framebuffer. |
| 14:08.57 | ``Erik | hehehe "Like many suspected compiler bugs, it turned out to be a C++ feature." http://traipse.com/cppmishap/ |
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| 14:34.19 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60420 brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/src/libfb/if_osg.cpp: The texture-based approach appears to work in this context, but still get the window flickering from Tk. |
| 14:40.44 | starseeker | ``Erik: kudos and thanks for your opengl texture based raytrace viewing in adrt, by the way |
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| 16:56.04 | hcurtis | brlcad: Understood. |
| 17:04.12 | hcurtis | Here is an update on where I am on my failed-test patch. My build succeeded, and I started investigating the failed tests. I noticed that several of them had to do with bu_encode, so I decided to focus on patching at least one failure in that group. |
| 17:04.55 | hcurtis | brlcad: Here is an update on where I am on my failed-test patch. My build succeeded, and I started investigating the failed tests. I noticed that several of them had to do with bu_encode, so I decided to focus on patching at least one failure in that group. |
| 17:05.53 | hcurtis | brlcad: I've looked at the source code, and I've also looked at information about recent changes made to the files. However, I do not see the reason for the failures. |
| 17:06.34 | hcurtis | brlcad: I am juggling my work on the patch with school work, and unfortunately, I am running out of time. That is why I've decided to ask for help. |
| 17:07.37 | hcurtis | brlcad: My specific questions are these: Do you think my choice for a possible patch is appropriate given my skill level? (It wouldn't be wise for me to keep going on this one if I'm not likely to resolve it for you.) If I should continue, what technique(s) should I try now to find errors? |
| 18:18.24 | brlcad | hcurtis: I would think it's appropriate but if you've spent an hour and can't resolve the issue, that's either a sign that you're not ready for that particular issue or you aren't seeing the clues to know how to fix it |
| 18:19.33 | brlcad | I don't yet know your skill level beyond what you've said, which is the point of the patch ;) |
| 18:19.58 | brlcad | so maybe tell more about your programming experience |
| 18:54.05 | hcurtis | brlcad: So far, I have taken two Java courses and one course each in JavaScript, PHP, and HTML/CSS, and I am currently nearing the end of a C++ course. I earned/am earning As in all of them. |
| 18:54.58 | hcurtis | brlcad: The concepts I have learned about and used in programs include Boolean logic, algorithm design, data types, selection, repetition, functions, arrays, strings, events, exceptions, classes, and objects. |
| 18:59.34 | brlcad | so it's the work you're currently doing in the C++ course that is probably most relevant to what you proposed working on |
| 18:59.44 | brlcad | and to the task you were trying to debug |
| 19:00.58 | brlcad | however, if you're basically just in your first year learning C/C++, you have a LOT of work to do ... a lot of homework and time will be required |
| 19:02.06 | brlcad | the other courses will help you with basic control structures and concepts, but specifics of C or even C++ are going to be exceptionally foreign |
| 19:02.43 | brlcad | understanding pointers is probably the biggest piece missing (and that usually takes years) |
| 19:04.23 | brlcad | however, for the immediate, you need to be able to focus if you're going to learn anything .. so I suggest either taking care of your class/school work first or focusing on a patch, but not trying to juggle both |
| 19:04.29 | brlcad | you're just not going to get anywhere that way |
| 19:04.41 | brlcad | not with so many unknown concepts coming at you |
| 19:08.11 | gaganjyot | hi brlcad |
| 19:08.21 | brlcad | hello gaganjyot |
| 19:08.28 | gaganjyot | brlcad: Does BRL-CAD supports multithreading ? |
| 19:08.34 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:09.17 | brlcad | you've not even looked for the answer to that, did you? :) |
| 19:09.26 | gaganjyot | no :( |
| 19:09.38 | brlcad | considering it has the first (ever) implementation of a multithreaded ray tracer about 30 years ago .. "yes" |
| 19:09.53 | gaganjyot | Wow |
| 19:10.05 | gaganjyot | 's mind is blown! |
| 19:10.06 | brlcad | at least multithreaded+distributed |
| 19:10.40 | gaganjyot | I see :) |
| 19:11.06 | gaganjyot | brlcad: one more question, |
| 19:11.29 | gaganjyot | Are there any plans for a UI like FreeCAD ? |
| 19:11.40 | gaganjyot | I am not comparing the CAD softwares |
| 19:12.04 | gaganjyot | its just like My friends ( Mechanical engineers ) prefer UI of FreeCAD over that of BRL-CAD |
| 19:12.05 | brlcad | yes, we're actively involved in two separate projects that aim to improve our usability/interface |
| 19:12.30 | gaganjyot | Oh |
| 19:12.32 | brlcad | we've been busy migrating and implementing core infrastructure before we start attacking the interface |
| 19:12.57 | gaganjyot | Any links to this new UI stuff ? |
| 19:13.11 | gaganjyot | Are you talking about Archer ? |
| 19:14.16 | brlcad | archer is our "first step" towards a new GUI .. http://brlcad.org/tmp/archer_logo.png .. but it's mostly just to get code that was in mged pushed into a library |
| 19:14.28 | brlcad | Qt is the foundation for our new UI |
| 19:14.46 | brlcad | that's our "next generation" interface |
| 19:14.49 | gaganjyot | And any link to Qt stuff ? |
| 19:14.55 | brlcad | step two, per se |
| 19:15.12 | brlcad | not that will be of value to anyone |
| 19:15.44 | brlcad | that's active development but that just sporadically gets attention because we're still working on the critical infrastructure pieces |
| 19:16.10 | gaganjyot | brlcad: what technology are you using for the display of new UI ? |
| 19:16.17 | brlcad | namely brep/nurbs support that we can robustly turn into triangles on demand so we can have shaded 3D displays of any geometry |
| 19:16.33 | brlcad | what do you mean? |
| 19:17.12 | gaganjyot | Like some game engine ? |
| 19:17.24 | gaganjyot | I mean for displaying the objects on scene |
| 19:17.30 | gaganjyot | objects on screen* |
| 19:17.50 | brlcad | Qt+OGRE has been my view for a number of years, but it's a thin-client architecture so it could just as easily be something else |
| 19:18.25 | gaganjyot | brlcad: and how you select the object from a screen ? |
| 19:18.30 | gaganjyot | bounding box method ? |
| 19:19.09 | brlcad | I think a step back is needed to answer that properly |
| 19:20.10 | gaganjyot | pardon |
| 19:20.20 | gaganjyot | I didn't understood |
| 19:21.18 | hcurtis | brlcad: I understand. Well, the good news is this: I am a hard worker, a fast learner, a good communicator and planner, and someone who takes direction and criticism very well. |
| 19:22.10 | hcurtis | brlcad: Also, I was not exaggerating when I said in my proposal that I will have NO competing demands after school ends in May--no school, no other job, no children. I will have the extra time it will take for me to do a good job for you. |
| 19:22.15 | brlcad | gaganjyot: if this were a building, I just told you that we're working on pouring the foundation and installing the floors/walls of the building, and you just asked me if light switches go up or down |
| 19:22.33 | gaganjyot | I know that brlcad :D |
| 19:22.53 | brlcad | then you should know that it makes no sense at this point to even be asking that .. it can be anything |
| 19:22.56 | gaganjyot | Actually I am new to Graphics stuff so curious |
| 19:23.08 | gaganjyot | I thought to port Blender's UI |
| 19:23.13 | gaganjyot | to BRL-CAD |
| 19:23.27 | gaganjyot | just for my friend's sake |
| 19:23.32 | brlcad | you could certainly try ... but I don't think you'd get very far |
| 19:23.40 | gaganjyot | I see |
| 19:23.50 | gaganjyot | thats why I was asking you these questions |
| 19:24.09 | brlcad | blender works with a specific type of geometry and doesn't care about CAD constraints |
| 19:24.33 | brlcad | so you'd have to decouple many concepts from the interface and impose things under the hood |
| 19:24.50 | gaganjyot | and view about FreeCAD's UI ? |
| 19:25.06 | hcurtis | brlcad: I am also a very good researcher, which is something that has already helped me a lot during this GSoC application process. |
| 19:25.27 | brlcad | hcurtis: having children has no bearing whatsoever on selections |
| 19:25.38 | brlcad | just saying |
| 19:26.33 | brlcad | hcurtis: all of that you've said before, I get that .. the issue will be making sure your project is aptly suited to your abilities if you are selected |
| 19:26.50 | hcurtis | brlcad: Kids take up time that could be spent on GSoC. That's the only reason I said that. |
| 19:27.14 | brlcad | no amount of hard working will turn you into a rocket scientist in the span of three months, same can be said of becoming a proficient C/C++ programmer |
| 19:27.34 | brlcad | hcurtis: I know why you said it and I'm saying that's irrelevant |
| 19:27.58 | brlcad | you are expected to have time to yourself, your family, your needs .. it would not be healthy or desirable otherwise |
| 19:27.58 | hcurtis | brlcad: Ok |
| 19:28.40 | brlcad | so anyone saying they have no kids as an example of committment means absolutely squat |
| 19:29.14 | brlcad | if someone's plan for completing their plan involves working 80 hour weeks, we've both failed |
| 19:29.20 | brlcad | that's not sustainable |
| 19:29.43 | brlcad | gaganjyot: if you're interested in helping with the new interface, there's certainly plenty of ways you can help today |
| 19:30.08 | gaganjyot | brlcad: How ? |
| 19:30.27 | gaganjyot | not exactly today, but I'd like to help BRL-CAD :) |
| 19:30.33 | brlcad | well it's not like that's a quick and simple project .. there are many many many pieces that need to be completed |
| 19:32.37 | brlcad | most useful, you could start with a planning activity, infrastructure, or cost-benefit evaluation |
| 19:33.57 | brlcad | planning would involve establishing minimal requirements for stages of development, drawing mock-up GUIs, identifying technologies /libraries / collaborations of interest, etc |
| 19:34.23 | brlcad | infrastructure is mostly what we're focusing on and need the most help with, getting our core libraries into reusable shape |
| 19:34.26 | brlcad | that's coding |
| 19:35.19 | brlcad | cost-benefit evaluation would be to look at the current survey of architecture designs and quantify characteristics of value, compare Qt+OGRE with repurposed-Blender-UI for example .. itemized feature breakdown and cost analysis |
| 19:36.38 | gaganjyot | I see |
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| 19:42.29 | hcurtis | brlcad: Your points are excellent, and you have the knowledge and experience to back them up. I wasn't talking about 80-hour weeks, anyway. (However, I could see 50, for example, if that's what it will take to succeed, and that wouldn't be a problem. I can guarantee it.) |
| 19:42.57 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60421 (brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/INSTALL brlcad/branches/openscenegraph/configure and 6 others): Got the glfw version of this to interactively update - had forgotten the code to free the context for writing by other threads. Will try to do this with osgViewer, if possible, to avoid needing to keep glfw, but definitely checkpoint this working state for reference. |
| 19:43.37 | hcurtis | brlcad: In advertising (my former industry), 50+ hours a week were nothing. |
| 19:44.10 | brlcad | I know, similar in the computer graphics industry (particularly for film and games) |
| 19:44.28 | brlcad | with open source, you do it because you love it |
| 19:44.43 | brlcad | more like working with your hands, it's code gardening |
| 19:45.04 | hcurtis | brlcad: I was just saying that while others may have more experience than I do, one advantage I arguably offer is that I have more time to devote to GSoC than some other candidates. That doesn't mean I'm some kind of hermit. I feel fortunate that my schedule is pretty wide open this summer. BRL-CAD would be able to benefit from that. |
| 19:45.49 | hcurtis | brlcad: Code gardening. I like that analogy. |
| 19:47.04 | brlcad | GSoC projects put a bunch of people into our field, which is great but ultimatley what most of them/you work on over the summer is irrelevant to us |
| 19:47.21 | brlcad | you can pull all the weeds you want .. you're not going to get all of them and there will be plenty more next year ;) |
| 19:48.03 | brlcad | likewise, you can plant something awesome, but if you don't stick around to tend to that plant, it's probably going to whither |
| 19:48.04 | hcurtis | brlcad: Yes |
| 19:48.28 | hcurtis | brlcad: Very true |
| 19:48.38 | brlcad | here you come with no gardening experience, heck minimal manual labor experience, no tools, dainty clean hands ... ;) |
| 19:48.50 | hcurtis | Lol |
| 19:48.50 | brlcad | we can certainly put you to work and will appreciate the " |
| 19:48.54 | brlcad | fruits of your labor" |
| 19:50.11 | brlcad | but what will be most valuable are the lasting impressions, sustained participation in the garden long after gsoc is over or improvements to the garden that outlast your involvement (which is exceptionally rare) |
| 19:50.54 | hcurtis | I am certainly ready to serve. |
| 19:51.43 | hcurtis | brlcad: (Oops. Forgot the handle.) I am certainly ready to serve. |
| 19:52.12 | brlcad | you don't need to prefix when you're in the middle of a discussion |
| 19:52.23 | brlcad | use it to get my attention when it might be ambiguous |
| 19:52.28 | hcurtis | Ok |
| 19:52.44 | brlcad | was that meant for me? |
| 19:52.58 | hcurtis | Yes. |
| 19:53.12 | brlcad | starseeker: was that meant for me? :) |
| 19:53.17 | brlcad | hehe, j/k |
| 19:53.48 | hcurtis | Good point |
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