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| 00:54.46 | starseeker | crud - isst isn't working on Windows |
| 00:58.01 | ``Erik | odd |
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| 03:18.49 | hcurtis | brlcad: Hi, Sean. I use a Windows 7 laptop that is ok but probably not powerful enough to do my best work for you and for BRL-CAD. I have ideas about what I will need, but I've decided to go ahead and just ask you what you would like me to get. |
| 03:45.50 | brlcad | really anything that you're comfortable with |
| 03:51.55 | brlcad | you'll spend a lot of time compiling and for that there are plenty of tricks to get you productive even on slow hardware (protip: rebuilding all of brl-cad after every change is a bad idea) |
| 03:52.48 | brlcad | for gsoc, the operating system doesn't matter ... hardware probably doesn't matter either |
| 03:54.53 | brlcad | what will matter most is making independent progress, active communication, and knowing when to ask for help |
| 03:55.40 | brlcad | I suggest becoming intimately familiar with all the resources on the checklist, maybe even do some of the mged tutorials, definitely compile/install/run brl-cad from a source checkout, and everything else in the checklist |
| 04:01.13 | hcurtis | brlcad: Sounds good. Thank you. |
| 04:11.14 | hcurtis | brlcad: One issue is that building BRL-CAD on my laptop always takes at least an hour. (I've been doing it inside a VM.) What are my options for speeding that up? I read in the BRL-CAD materials that a quad-core Debian 64-bit machine might be the way to go. So you say that's unnecessary? |
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| 04:39.01 | brlcad | necessary for what? |
| 04:42.16 | brlcad | it's like saying an SUV is necessary, because your current car is slow .. it makes very little sense to the real issue -- that you're driving a long distance and you apparently don't like your car |
| 04:42.51 | brlcad | we've had people on 20-year old hardware do just fine, your laptop is certainly not that old |
| 04:43.06 | brlcad | whether you'll be happy with it is entirely a different matter |
| 04:44.29 | brlcad | if compiling becomes an excuse for not making progress, you're doing many things wrong |
| 04:45.41 | brlcad | get a faster machine or don't, it's mostly irrelevant to gsoc |
| 04:45.49 | brlcad | get it because you feel you need it or want it |
| 04:45.52 | brlcad | or don't |
| 05:19.41 | hcurtis | Ok. |
| 05:37.16 | hcurtis | Sean, you've made some excellent points. |
| 05:37.58 | hcurtis | Here are the facts. I do like my laptop. I just don't like waiting that long for BRL-CAD to compile. |
| 05:38.29 | hcurtis | I never meant to imply that slow compiling might become an excuse for not making progress. I won't let that happen. |
| 05:40.01 | hcurtis | Likewise, in case you were wondering, I wasn't trying to get you to tell me to go out and get a new laptop. I sincerely just want to do a good job, and in my mind, an hour-long compile time doesn't fit with that. But you've set me straight--I am now understanding that it's progress that matters, not compile times. |
| 05:40.49 | hcurtis | At the same time, it would be wise for me to at least learn about my options for a faster BRL-CAD build. |
| 05:41.37 | hcurtis | Let's get away from the idea of a specific OS or computer. What are my options for speeding up my build (including options not requiring new hardware or software)? |
| 05:43.59 | brlcad | ccache can be a benefit, but don't know if it runs on windows |
| 05:44.33 | brlcad | not using visual studio to compile is usually faster |
| 05:45.02 | brlcad | only compiling the subdirs that you modify is a great way too, but somewhat specific to the "make" targets |
| 05:45.15 | brlcad | obviously compiling outside a vm should be faster |
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| 05:47.05 | brlcad | hcurtis: and don't get me wrong either .. i know you have good intentions, just trying to steer away from open-ended discussions that are almost entirely decided based on anecdotal evidence or popular opinion |
| 05:48.14 | brlcad | of course, compiling debug is faster too |
| 05:48.34 | brlcad | compiling on a server instead of locally |
| 05:48.59 | hcurtis | Ok |
| 05:49.00 | brlcad | installing a linux or bsd distro (don't ask for a recommendation, just pick one) |
| 05:49.22 | brlcad | your first step is probably to just set up a native build environment for whatever you have now |
| 05:49.28 | brlcad | if you're on windows, that's an msvc build |
| 05:49.43 | brlcad | or msvc express if you don't have the pro version, it's free |
| 05:49.59 | hcurtis | All of this is great information. |
| 05:50.34 | brlcad | we'll see how much has to be repeated over the next couple months ;) |
| 05:50.55 | hcurtis | lol |
| 05:51.29 | hcurtis | I know you're saying that with love. ;) |
| 05:51.39 | brlcad | it's good that you're trying to sort out your build environment now |
| 05:52.10 | brlcad | just try a straight up native build without the training wheels and see how it goes, ask questions, try things |
| 05:52.18 | brlcad | VM == training wheels |
| 05:52.45 | brlcad | enwanders for a bit |
| 05:53.34 | hcurtis | I've seen you say that before. What is enwandering??? |
| 05:55.39 | brlcad | commenceforth departesh frometh ze network |
| 05:55.52 | brlcad | can mean a whole slew of things... :) |
| 06:02.28 | hcurtis | brlcad: This is from a #brlcad conversation I had with starseeker a few weeks ago: |
| 06:02.56 | hcurtis | brlcad: <starseeker> Windows is a difficult environment to work with for BRL-CAD - if that's your normal setup, I'd recommend the VM |
| 06:03.18 | hcurtis | brlcad: Any comments? |
| 06:04.28 | hcurtis | brlcad: That is one reason I'm still using the VM. |
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| 12:10.18 | ``Erik | hcurtis: the difficulty starseeker referred to is more about our experience and focus... we don't use or like windows, so it's a "second class citizen" with attention once a week or month, where linux/mac/bsd/unix is daily attention. If you run into a tricky windows related issue, we'll be of far less help in figuring it out :) |
| 12:11.52 | ``Erik | but if you're comfortable with windows and willing help out in keeping that build working, I say give it a shot |
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| 12:38.33 | brlcad | hcurtis: moreover, "independent discovery" |
| 12:39.33 | brlcad | another dev telling you it's difficult or bad or hard or terrible or whatever without more information leaves a LOT of room for you to explore that question on your own until you understand what it means or perhaps you'll encounter a contradictory experience |
| 12:41.38 | brlcad | you want to be productive and I get that, but you also have a lot to learn and need to learn it quickly, which will only happen by you trying things, exploring, testing ... |
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| 12:44.48 | brlcad | ask questions and advice when you get *stuck*, less so on what to learn or avoid .. you should be exploring most of what you encounter, at least until you feel you understand it. ;) |
| 12:45.49 | brlcad | starseeker: those two commits are not in the scope of 7.24.2, but I flagged them |
| 12:48.09 | brlcad | hcurtis: quite apropos article today: http://opensource.com/education/14/4/windows-to-linux-system-administration |
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| 15:35.33 | hcurtis | ``Erik: Hi, Erik. That is good information to know. Thank you. |
| 15:35.55 | hcurtis | brlcad: This has been an excellent conversation. I appreciate all of the information and advice. |
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| 20:11.32 | Notify | 03BRL-CAD:n_reed * 60442 brlcad/trunk/src/libbrep/boolean.cpp: ensure orientations of inner and outer trim loops in evaluated breps conform to our expectations |
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| 21:17.56 | BhargavYoda | Hello, is it possible I can contribute if I am comfortable with Android programming? On the GSoC page one of the tags was android but I really couldn't find any follow up to this. |
| 21:23.45 | teepee | BhargavYoda: do hang around, you'll get an answer eventually |
| 21:24.37 | BhargavYoda | sure! |
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