IRC log for #brlcad on 20140528

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05:34.15 raj12lnm hi all.
05:34.23 raj12lnm i have trouble starting mged again
05:34.32 raj12lnm it says cannot open G
05:34.58 raj12lnm invalid command name "helplib" MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode.
05:35.13 raj12lnm the above is the "exact" error message
05:35.19 raj12lnm can somebody help me!
05:54.59 *** join/#brlcad KimK (~Kim__@ip68-102-30-143.ks.ok.cox.net)
06:03.14 hcurtis Update: I'm working on fast4-g.c, but I'm stuck. However, I've thought of two questions I can ask myself in order to take a fresh look at the task: 1) When converting from FASTGEN4 format to BRL-CAD format, why does dynamic memory need to be allocated in the first place? 2) In the code blocks where bu_malloc appears, what variables, pointers, and other elements does it operate on?
06:17.49 hcurtis Another possibly helpful question is this: what are the actual contents of bu_malloc (and alloc, which it contains)?
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08:33.34 *** join/#brlcad piyushparkash (~piyushpar@202.164.53.117)
08:42.21 hcurtis Here are additional questions: What is it about fast4-g's current code that makes it too slow? What exactly do I need to do to make it as fast as it should be?
08:43.58 hcurtis By the way, what I've been doing is finding answers to the questions I posed earlier here in the channel.
08:55.16 mihaineacsu_bbl hcurtis: I don't the status of fast4-g code, but usually when you're dealing with slow code you need to do profiling which means using a tool in order to measure the biggest bottlenecks and work on those first in order to speed up the program.
08:56.11 hcurtis Hi, mihaineacsu_bbl. Thank you.
08:56.16 mihaineacsu_bbl hcurtis: maybe till someone gives you a right answer for your situation, you could have a look here http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1794816/recommendations-for-c-profilers
08:58.26 hcurtis This is great information. Thank you.
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09:40.59 hcurtis Update: I was looking at fast4-g's commit information on Sourceforge, and I found the feature that allows you to compare different versions of the program. Better late than never.
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11:43.46 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60921 (svn:ignore ## -5,3 +5,7 ## and 16 others): add more ignoresProperty Changed:----------------brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/
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12:36.06 ``Erik history of the gpu http://www.techspot.com/article/650-history-of-the-gpu/
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13:16.08 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60922 brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c: Clean up the diff summary logic a bit, make the result-type flags work for all the verbosity settings.
13:42.00 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 60923 brlcad/trunk/src/libfb/if_qt.c: remove trailing blank
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14:06.19 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60924 brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c: More reworking of diff text output. 4 verbosity levels now, different attribute printing style.
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14:56.51 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60925 brlcad/trunk/include/rt/db_diff.h: Update the diff3 header pattern to match the diff pattern.
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15:03.03 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60926 (brlcad/trunk/include/rt/db_diff.h brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_diff.c): Add initializers for diff3 containers
15:08.42 brlcad d_rossberg: I'd also be interested in "where" there are places in the code that actually require a group of shells, whether they can be simplified to one shell or whether it's an algorithmic issue (e.g., boolean processing potentially creating multiple shells) or just some extraneous bit of code
15:08.57 brlcad alas, Zhao isn't here to ask him
15:12.18 brlcad raj12lnm: still having problems starting mged?
15:21.08 ankesh11 brlcad: The archives would come in really handy now, I have a couple of plots ready but they have not been tested, neither do they convey significant info due to the scarcity of the db.
15:24.35 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60927 brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/csourceparser.pl: turn off execution--using for inspiration and code reuse only
15:24.40 d_rossberg i think a shell is always connected
15:25.12 d_rossberg if you facetize a geometry with disconnected regions you'll get a group of shells
15:25.46 d_rossberg however, i like it this way: a primitive should be primitive
15:26.10 d_rossberg everything else could be done with the well tested combinations
15:28.50 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60928 (svn:ignore ## -1,11 +1,18 ## and 31 others): add ignoresProperty Changed:----------------brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/
15:33.07 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60929 brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/ParseCChunk.pm: change package name before renaming file
15:37.42 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60930 (brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/CParse.pm brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/D.pm): rename Perl module for clarity; change to the new name inside modules using it
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16:09.51 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60931 (brlcad/trunk/include/rt/db_diff.h brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_diff.c): start reworking diff3 code to use the array-of-results approach.
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17:11.56 clock brlcad, hi
17:18.21 raj12lnm brlcad : yes
17:18.33 raj12lnm didnt spend much time on it, though
17:18.45 raj12lnm btw did u see my patches
17:22.11 brlcad hello clock, saw your updates
17:22.18 brlcad raj12lnm: not yet but will soon
17:22.53 raj12lnm brlcad: so my mged gui is not opening
17:22.57 raj12lnm after the build
17:23.03 raj12lnm it gives me the following error
17:23.06 raj12lnm invalid command name "helplib" MGED unable to initialize gui, reverting to classic mode. attach (nu|txt|X)[nu]?
17:26.42 Notify 03BRL-CAD:tbrowder2 * 60932 (brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/D.pm brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/ParsePPCHeader.pm brlcad/branches/d-binding/misc/d-bindings/c-grammar.txt): save work--now have some communication with the CGrammer module in the calling function--hurray
17:27.51 mihaineacsu_bbl raj12lnm: when you run cmake it configures the build system and generates a report about your configuration. What does it say about interface options? You should see something about X11
17:28.34 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl
17:28.45 raj12lnm i will have to change a cmake file for that
17:29.12 raj12lnm shld i do this provided the fact that it ran correctly previously
17:29.15 raj12lnm ?
17:30.18 clock brlcad kickstarter: "Meanwhile, project creation is currently available to individuals in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands who meet the requirements below."
17:30.40 clock so no kickstarter
17:31.37 brlcad raj12lnm: did you try running from an install directory or only from a build directory?
17:32.16 brlcad clock: kickstarter was but an example -- there are literally a dozen or more popular sites like them .. you only need one ;)
17:32.55 raj12lnm brlcad : from /usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/bin
17:33.05 brlcad starting with the biggest most popular is where I would have started too, but I wouldn't stop there myself
17:33.12 brlcad raj12lnm: huh
17:33.21 brlcad raj12lnm: is your build modified in any way?
17:33.27 raj12lnm even from there
17:33.34 raj12lnm i run
17:33.57 raj12lnm ~/brlcad_build/bin
17:34.36 raj12lnm it gives same issue
17:35.11 *** join/#brlcad ries_nicked (~ries@190.9.171.121)
17:37.00 brlcad raj12lnm: but running /usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/bin/mged gives you that error too?
17:37.28 clock brlcad, so dozen times attorney fees to figure out if there is some hidden trap in the terms and conditions that could potentially ruin me financially
17:38.39 clock brlcad, and I cant do this with ordinary attorney who understands just swiss law, I need a special one, more expensive, who understands english and international law
17:38.43 brlcad meh, if you pick a popular site, that is not at all a likely result and most of the terms are easy enough to understand
17:39.14 clock brlcad, not all likely times large potential risk
17:39.19 clock brlcad, no they are not easy to understand
17:39.29 brlcad if you don't want to, that's your prerogative, but I fully disagree that it's not worth pursuing
17:39.46 *** join/#brlcad kintel (~kintel@unaffiliated/kintel)
17:40.10 brlcad and this is not a point we have to agree on :)
17:40.56 clock brlcad, I hear a tons of stories where an individual was abused and ruined by a combination of hard to understand unpredictable legalese, a company with lawyers, and a complex/corrupt/arbitrary judicial system
17:41.18 clock So I think due diligence is waranteed when agreeing to something
17:41.31 clock but due diligence is disproportionately expensive to the raised amount of money
17:41.45 brlcad I'm not going to argue with you on this
17:41.53 brlcad so you can stop trying to convince me of your decision
17:43.52 *** join/#brlcad raj12lnm (31cd6b50@gateway/web/freenode/ip.49.205.107.80)
17:43.57 brlcad it's increasingly off-topic as well, and I'd like to keep our discussion here centered on open source CAx
17:44.42 clock I agree
17:45.34 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl
17:45.51 clock brlcad, how difficult would it be to implement placing objects so that they touch each other?
17:45.52 clock for example
17:45.59 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl : u didnt warn me
17:46.08 clock I have a cone with angle of 35 degrees
17:46.08 ``Erik open source ca{d,e,m} and pictures of cats, yo O.o :D
17:46.10 raj12lnm that my system will go black after doing that
17:46.21 mihaineacsu_bbl raj12lnm: it shouldn't go black at all
17:46.21 brlcad you mean an explicit constraint? you can implicitly make them touch each other already
17:46.24 clock and I want to put a sphere diameter 14mm into the cone so it touches it
17:46.34 clock in BRLCAD
17:46.42 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl : I turned into a black n white screen
17:46.50 raj12lnm and i could see only the terminal
17:46.51 clock before I did it using wikipedia, paper, pencil, calculator, and a lot of time
17:47.04 ``Erik clock: libpc was started to address that, I don't believe it reached usability :/ so it'd be manual at this time
17:47.05 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl : c/I/It
17:47.05 clock type coordinates manually
17:47.12 clock Oh yes and I forgot
17:47.15 brlcad clock: right, so you mean with some form of explicit or automatic constraint
17:47.15 clock it should be usable
17:47.39 clock I dont know what explicit or automatic means
17:47.49 clock but I guess "two things touch each other" is probably a constraint yes
17:48.04 clock another example is this
17:48.10 mihaineacsu_bbl raj12lnm: if you could see the terminal it means x11 works fine. so it's not that. brlcad mentioned running /usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/bin/mged and it see if that works
17:49.42 clock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Gsq4dMcEA&t=1m29s
17:49.51 clock The U channel has defined side wall angle like 5 deg
17:49.58 clock rounding diameter at the endi
17:50.05 clock rounding idameter in the corner inside
17:50.12 clock and these cylinders have to touch properly
17:50.20 clock also I would be interested in things like intersections
17:50.44 clock Like intersection of two solids creates some point or edge
17:51.02 clock and I want to place something so that its middle, axis is on that point or edge
17:51.06 clock or that it touches that point or edge
17:51.14 clock or has some angle to it etc.
17:51.32 clock all the things we learned in 3D geometry in the high school
17:52.00 raj12lnm it says this now
17:53.14 clock Another example is sheet bending
17:53.25 clock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Gsq4dMcEA&t=2m27s
17:53.41 clock I have a printed paper template for a tin sheet which gets bend into a cylinder shape
17:53.59 raj12lnm error : usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/bin/mged: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/brlcad/dev-7.24.1/lib/libtermio.so.20: file too short
17:54.21 raj12lnm mihaineacsu_bbl : some unexpected things are happening
17:54.37 clock and third thing is
17:54.43 clock I would like BRLCAD to generate dimensions
17:54.54 clock its like 2 arrows in the middle is number how many milimeters
17:55.17 clock and there are shorter perpendicular lines from the ends of the arrow to the points or edges that are measured
17:55.29 clock and none of these arrows may intersect with anything that would impair legibility of the numbers
17:55.31 ``Erik raj12lnm: that's a damaged file, you'll need to remove libtermio.so.20 in your build directory, recompile and reinstall
17:55.46 clock I guess all these functions must be pretty complicated to program
17:59.57 clock ``Erik, do commercial programs like Autocad have these touching and dimensions functions?
18:06.32 Notify 03BRL-CAD:vladbogo * 60933 (brlcad/trunk/src/mged/attach.c brlcad/trunk/src/mged/dm-qt.c): Attached the Qt framebuffer to the display manager.
18:09.42 raj12lnm ``Erik is libtermio shipped with brlcad or an external library ?
18:12.40 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Vladbogolin * 7158 /wiki/User:Vladbogolin/GSoC2014/Logs: /* Week 2 */
18:21.28 clock brlcad, you know which is the most complex part of brlcad?
18:24.21 fenn i would guess the STEP importer
18:24.31 fenn but i don't know anything
18:24.35 clock its the user
18:24.46 clock consisting of ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND BILLION parts
18:28.19 clock so I think some consideration should be give to it
18:28.44 clock like adapting the way the user thinks
18:31.25 clock and that is extracting statistical patterns from raw data, called percepts, which allow the raw data to be represented in a much less demanding, practical way
18:31.38 clock like the fact ellipsoid often have 3 or 2 axes same
18:31.41 clock cylinders 2 axes
18:31.59 clock instead of specifying positions of objects you can specify the gam between them
18:32.13 clock if u make statistical analysis of the gaps youll see the most often comes 0
18:32.28 clock and the smaller values come more often
18:32.44 clock so you stretch the histogram and then you can input data using many less digits
18:32.47 clock things like repetitions
18:33.20 clock transformations dont tend to be arbitrary
18:33.29 clock most are mirrorings, translations, rotations
18:33.58 clock Has anyone done a statistical analysis of large amount of 3D BRLCAD models and tried to find these patterns in?
18:34.12 clock So that they can be used to simplify entry of the models into BRL-CAD?
18:34.37 clock angles
18:34.53 clock which angle do you think occurs more often
18:34.59 clock 90 deg or 78.193747 deg?
18:35.08 clock 45 deg or 43.22 deg?
18:35.19 clock translations
18:35.31 clock which more often, 100 mm, 97 mm or 63.48292646237 mm?
18:35.38 fenn there are ISO standard "preferred numbers"
18:36.35 fenn hates predictive input systems
18:37.05 clock fenn, you have experience with them?
18:37.27 fenn any smartphone
18:37.38 fenn google search query
18:38.16 fenn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Humane_Interface
18:40.01 clock reminds me my smartphone entry of alarm time
18:40.38 clock I type the minute digits
18:40.56 clock then press "continue", "finished", and "OK"
18:41.09 clock and the "home"
18:41.44 clock cause I have my spmartphone also for other things than constantly watching the alarm listing screen
18:41.54 clock so entering the time is 2 keypresses
18:42.01 clock confirming is 4
18:42.02 fenn i type "930" and it gives me an error "hours must be 1-12"
18:42.17 clock so actually doing the useless overhead of doing nothing takes 2 times more energy than doing what I wanted to do - enter the time
18:44.42 fenn "Rule 1.
18:44.42 fenn
18:44.57 fenn An interface should be habituating. If the interface can be operated habitually then, after you have used it for a while, its use becomes automatic and you can release all your attention to the task you are trying to achieve. Any interface will have elements that are habituating, but the principle here is to make the entire interface habituating."
18:45.04 clock seems like the optimization function when designing the smartphone was maximizing the energy needed to enter an action
18:45.55 fenn the optimization function was "pay the least amount for subcontracted programmers"
18:45.59 clock I would go even further
18:46.05 clock take some action which is done the most often
18:46.11 clock like tapping the touchscreen
18:46.16 clock and make it incredibly complicated
18:46.30 clock like you have to press increase and decrease volume for 5 seconds
18:46.51 clock then reboot the smartphone while tapping the power key every 1.3 second but not less than 1.2 or more than 1.4
18:46.57 clock then you get service bootloader menu
18:47.21 clock where you have to enter a PUK which you can get only if you mail a document to the headwuarters of the company
18:47.32 clock e-mail is not accepted, and you need to mail in 3 copies verified by an attorney
18:47.35 clock each time new
18:47.36 fenn up down left right hold a b start
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18:47.47 clock after that you are allowed to activate the function "enter X and Y coordinates of a tap"
18:47.53 clock I think that would be a pinnacle of smartphone design
18:48.50 clock fenn, pay programmers?
18:48.52 fenn actually they do have an incredibly complex system to unlock the phone, except it's not just 10 or 100 button presses, but 4096 bits
18:49.07 clock fenn, couldnt they do the development on students which work for free in exchange for experience?
18:49.45 clock I have to enter these 6+ taps to do n action which always repeats:
18:49.47 fenn nah students are too slow/naive; they would try to do a good job and not finish in time. a contractor knows how to pump out shit code
18:49.58 clock enter a constant time for my pill alarm
18:50.34 clock so I will probably solder a device with NE555 timer
18:50.41 clock which will cost like 10 times less than the smartphone
18:50.56 clock do the same function with 6 times less keypresses
18:51.12 fenn how many times less is zero keypresses
18:51.24 clock my smartphone is Android
18:51.44 fenn so download "tea timer"
18:51.44 clock like
18:51.52 clock why do I have to press light switch every time I want to turn the light on
18:52.01 clock when its pretty easy to figure out that I will want to turn it on?
18:52.29 fenn i have also been thinking about this
18:52.30 clock or like those repeating commands in BRLCAD
18:52.32 clock to render and view
18:53.40 clock I wish I could use my smartphone without actually entering into a legal contract with a 3rd party to fully use it
18:53.51 clock I use only software that can be downloaded outside the google market
18:54.09 clock like OSMand
18:55.34 clock or like what is the first thing a user will do when he starts BRL-CAD?
18:55.37 clock 1) click the firefox icon
18:55.41 clock 2) type google.com
18:55.48 clock 3) type "how to use brl-cad"
18:55.53 clock so could we just preprogram this into brl-cad?
18:56.36 clock what will user do when he gets error message from brlcad?
18:56.41 clock <PROTECTED>
18:56.44 clock 2) type google.com
18:56.48 clock 3) type "how to use brl-cad"
18:57.17 clock so I suggest instead of printing error messages, firefox with google.com/query=error_text is started
18:57.52 clock I get impression todays software is programmed by people WHO NEVER EVER USED A COMPUTER!
18:58.30 clock im sory mistake last point 3) should be "copy paste the error message into the search"
19:05.54 fenn clock: tea timer is in f-droid, which is why i suggested it
19:06.06 fenn i tried various timer apps and it sucked the least
19:06.56 clock fenn, so f-droid is like android apps where I don't have to sign any crazy contracts with irrelevant 3rd parties?
19:07.14 clock I find this idea absurd
19:07.30 clock when I turn my stove on I don't have to sign a contract with manufacturer of the stove burner
19:08.19 clock why do I need this in my telephone?
19:08.45 clock i dont have to do this in my PC
19:09.41 clock I dont have to do this in other things which ave battery like flashlight. Neither in things which are square and white like fridge. Nor things which have screen like TV. I see no reason why I should have to in smartphone
19:11.24 clock fenn, thanks for mentioning f-droid thats exactly what I wanted, you really made my day :)
19:12.21 fenn f-droid the project needs some help
19:13.01 fenn there is a lot of missing software, no search, no screenshots, etc
19:15.15 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60934 (brlcad/trunk/include/rt/db_diff.h brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c and 2 others): Rather than storing attributes in sets as we were previously, use a data structure setup that preserves the per-attribute diff state information. The other way, any summary printing had to essentially re-do the avs diff.
19:21.00 clock I tried install firefox and dicing app and both say "parse error in package"
19:21.02 clock and install nothing
19:21.21 clock but it makes the phone warm
19:21.46 clock so maybe they should rename it handwarmerdroid?
19:22.10 clock iSodiumAcetatePack?
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19:34.00 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60935 (brlcad/trunk/include/rt/db_diff.h brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_diff.c): Make prospective diff3 callbacks use the new structure setup.
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20:11.28 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 60936 brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/fb-orle.xml: oops, had to switch 'd' and 'H' designations on the man page
20:15.02 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:14.98.233.139 * 7160 /wiki/User:Shainasabarwal/GSoC14/logs: /* Week 1 */
20:19.27 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60937 brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_diff.c: fill in db_diff3
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20:24.25 raj12lnm brlcad , ``Erik: Can you breif me about submodel primitive ?
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20:28.36 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60938 brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c: If we're at verbosity 4, report everything as a diff even if the types are different
20:29.59 ``Erik "submodel primitive"? you mean the nmg heirarchy?
20:33.02 raj12lnm may be!
20:33.04 raj12lnm i am not sure
20:35.40 raj12lnm ``Erik : basically i am wrapping submodel primitive in python
20:36.38 raj12lnm ``Erik : It takes a file as an input, And I wonder what kind of file that should be.
20:38.24 ``Erik where in the headers is the submodel you're looking at defined?
20:39.30 ``Erik huh, there's a src/librt/primitives/submodel/ O.o
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20:40.55 raj12lnm src/libwdb/wdb.c
20:41.18 raj12lnm ``Erik : in that file i am looking at mk_submodel(..)
20:42.01 ``Erik I'm not familiar with this primitive, but it looks like a way to reference geometry in another .g file
20:44.35 ``Erik say you have models of various toys, several of them use AA batteries, so you can have a batteries.g file with an "AA" model, then any toy using a double A battery can just refer to batteries.g/AA instead of having it's own model internally and updates to batteries.g is seen through all the consumer models... but I'm completely guessing based on a quick skim of the source :)
20:49.31 *** join/#brlcad hcurtis (b82d2fe4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.45.47.228)
20:50.17 clock ``Erik, these submodels are one example how BRLCAD adapted to the way people understand things
20:50.33 clock like repeating subunits
20:51.09 hcurtis brlcad: Checking in
21:01.28 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60939 brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c: Make some improvements to the summary logic.
21:10.34 raj12lnm Alright ``Erik
21:10.44 raj12lnm I will post an email on the list and ask tommorow.
21:10.46 raj12lnm :)
21:11.11 raj12lnm the issue is there is little or no doc of it on http://brlcad.org/wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives#ARS
21:11.20 raj12lnm or i am not sure if it is somewhere
21:11.24 raj12lnm anyways
21:11.29 raj12lnm goodnight folks :)
21:27.33 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60940 brlcad/trunk/src/librt/db_diff.c: Don't do tests that assume val1 and val2 are non-null when one of them is.
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21:33.22 Notify 03BRL-CAD:carlmoore * 60941 brlcad/trunk/doc/docbook/system/man1/en/g-shell-rect.xml: fixes to g-shell-rect man page
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22:04.59 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Erik * 7161 /wiki/BRL-CAD_Primitives: Stub in the submodel primitive.
22:11.35 Notify 03BRL-CAD:starseeker * 60942 (brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/gdiff2.c brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/gdiff2.h brlcad/trunk/src/gtools/gdiff2/summary.c): Not finished yet, but start working on diff reporting for diff3.

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