IRC log for #brlcad on 20150720

03:40.35 *** join/#brlcad Gurwinder (75c76f5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.199.111.90)
05:09.31 *** join/#brlcad dracarys983 (dracarys98@nat/iiit/x-uqjxcvqwcjwxfvnk)
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09:50.33 dracarys983 d_rossberg: Answers to your questions -- 1) and 2) I thought macros would be easier to use and as there are some macros in BU/BN as well, I thought this might be a good idea. 3) That struct shouldn't be there yes. My bad. I'll add it to my source files in libanalyze.
09:51.46 dracarys983 Sorry for the communication halt.
09:52.37 dracarys983 Since the past 3 days, I have been working on my Honors project. So, there hasn't been much progress in Volume() function.
10:42.12 *** join/#brlcad gurwinder (~chatzilla@117.214.207.65)
11:05.35 d_rossberg dracarys983: ok, thank you; and btw, looks like sourceforge has still issues
11:34.34 starseeker expectes it will be days yet, based on their blog post yesterday
11:35.15 starseeker http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-infrastructure-and-service-restoration/
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14:21.57 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Rossberg * 9048 /wiki/MGED_CMD_comb_color: not new but existing
14:22.37 *** join/#brlcad sofat (~sofat@202.164.45.212)
14:22.44 sofat brlcad, hello
14:51.51 *** join/#brlcad infobot (ibot@69-58-76-73.ut.vivintwireless.net)
14:51.51 *** topic/#brlcad is BRL-CAD || http://brlcad.org || logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23brlcad/ || Congrats to all GCI 2014 winners Peter & Marc! || Congratulations to our 12 GSoC students! || Don't ask if someone is here, just ask your questions and wait for a response. ;-)
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15:34.05 vasc is there some place in the net with a log on this channel? i always turn off my computer before going to bed
15:34.58 archivist read the topic
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16:00.53 vasc duh. right. thanks
16:06.45 sofat brlcad, hello
16:07.28 sofat I need some discussion
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17:27.35 *** join/#brlcad Izakey (~Isaac@154.70.98.96)
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17:28.19 gurwinder Izakey: Hi
17:28.40 Izakey Hi gurwinder
17:29.30 gurwinder I have discussed with pov-ray community about elliptical torus
17:29.47 gurwinder and I am able to make it but not totally
17:30.40 gurwinder I have to make proper use of functions that are used for elliptical torus, by me.
17:31.22 Izakey Okay gurwinder
17:32.40 gurwinder and one more thing
17:33.11 gurwinder I was searching for arb7, arb6 and others and I think they all came under arb8. Is it correct?
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17:37.03 Izakey Yes I know one is a superset of the others but don't know which one exactly gurwinder
17:37.48 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:117.214.207.65 * 9049 /wiki/User:Gurwinder_Singh/GSoc15/log_developmen:
17:38.20 gurwinder Izakey: Ok
17:40.30 *** join/#brlcad sofat (~sofat@202.164.45.204)
17:44.07 *** join/#brlcad konrado (~konro@41.205.22.31)
17:44.18 Izakey vasc , it appears the SF.net is still down
17:44.46 vasc yeah and it seems svn is like one of the last things they have in their mind restoring...
17:44.48 Izakey wonders what SF.net's infrastructure team has been doing
17:45.11 Izakey Really vasc,
17:45.12 vasc their priorities in restore says a lot about who they think their "customers" are
17:45.21 vasc they think its people downloading binaries and not developers
17:45.34 Izakey They've restored Slashdot already
17:45.43 sofat brlcad, I need some help please reply
17:46.19 dracarys983 Izakey: Sorry for leaving you half way in the build process. You got it going finally?
17:46.55 Izakey Well, I lost my entire gnome GUI and had to reinstall
17:47.44 Izakey dracarys983, I've tried getting a fresh checkout and svn is not working
17:48.25 Izakey vasc, how can open source organizations avoid this ?
17:48.46 vasc simple. pick a place to put the repository that focuses on selling repository access
17:49.06 vasc but we seem to have some minor issues
17:49.14 vasc our repo is way too big or something
17:49.27 dracarys983 Izakey: I'm really sorry about the loss
17:49.42 Izakey Way to big ? With respect to ???vasc
17:50.06 vasc the whole svn repository has several GBs of size
17:50.30 Izakey dracarys983, No need to be - I'm already enjoying my Fedora 22 now ;)
17:51.52 dracarys983 vasc, Izakey: VCS systems like Git clone the whole history of the repo as well. It's probably not practical to have our repo in Git.
17:52.31 ``Erik we have a git mirror at http://brlcad.org/brlcad.git ... it's... big. (starseeker said 1.6g at one point)
17:52.54 dracarys983 There's this article I stumbled upon : http://bitquabit.com/post/unorthodocs-abandon-your-dvcs-and-return-to-sanity/
17:52.59 Izakey Really? How long will it take to clone BRL-CAD from github ? dracarys983
17:53.45 dracarys983 Depends on your internet connection I guess. But .. LONG.
17:53.57 dracarys983 You can try the mirror ;)
17:55.25 Izakey I'll do dracarys983
17:55.28 ``Erik I on my mac, it weights in at 904m (might be a bit of size difference depending on what filesystem you're using) and the last update was july 16
17:55.46 ``Erik r65656
17:56.15 dracarys983 gurwinder: arb8 is the primitive under which all these come. It has arb4 to arb8 (the suffix number is the number of vertices).
17:56.17 Izakey Not as large as I thought dracarys983, thanks ``Erik
17:56.33 dracarys983 gurwinder: So yes, you're correct. :)
17:57.27 *** join/#brlcad bhollister (~brad@2601:647:cb02:7a00:95a9:1f97:9983:e98b)
17:57.34 ``Erik all the arb[0-9]'s are arb8, arb4 is just an arb8 with 4 points in the same place... arbn is 'different' iirc
17:57.52 ``Erik (arb4 is even listed as an arb8 in the db)
18:00.47 gurwinder dracarys983: Thanks alot :)
18:01.31 gurwinder ``Erik: :)
18:24.31 brlcad vasc: actually they did say that dev services would be the very last thing restored
18:24.49 brlcad it being the most critical to validate before bring it back online
18:25.42 brlcad here's the info on the sf outage for those that haven't read it yet: http://sourceforge.net/blog/sourceforge-infrastructure-and-service-restoration/
18:25.50 Izakey brlcad, is it just the sheer size of BRLCAD's code base that keeps it away from github ?
18:26.02 sofat brlcad, hello
18:26.09 Izakey doesn't like what he's being put through
18:26.31 Izakey s/he's/we're
18:26.37 sofat I need some discussion
18:26.53 brlcad dracarys983: it's good of you to think to follow existing api conventions, but macros are generally not appropriate for c++ API (and really should be secondary choice for "most" C APIs ...)
18:27.40 brlcad sofat: what do you need to discuss?
18:27.45 Stragus loves macros
18:27.57 ``Erik me, too... just ask starseeker ;)
18:28.15 sofat I have done all changes which is written in mail
18:28.21 brlcad gurwinder: correct arb* == arb8 except for "arbn" which is rather different altogether
18:29.38 *** join/#brlcad bhollister2 (~behollis@dhcp-59-221.cse.ucsc.edu)
18:29.41 ``Erik Izakey: there's an argument that using a dvcs would allow people to isolate and work in a silo instead of collaborating, where using a centralized system forces more openness
18:30.52 dracarys983 brlcad: It'd be better to change them to functions then?
18:31.05 dracarys983 Stragus and ``Erik, thanks for the love :P
18:31.49 sofat but this is not full fil " I like that the menu remembers what was expanded/collapsed, but there needs to be some visual indication for what is actively being displayed." because which library i used for menu this is not provide any option for this I am trying to do this(from 4 days) but it can't happen.
18:31.52 Izakey Thanks ``Erik,
18:32.01 brlcad dracarys983: that'd probably be a good idea
18:32.28 Izakey However, that argument is true when the centralized system is working ;)
18:32.36 brlcad there should be some specific benefit for them to be macros, a benefit that outweighs the downsides of debugging difficulties
18:33.06 ``Erik apparently "epic awesomeness" by itself isn't a benefit everyone appreciates *cough* O:-)
18:33.18 brlcad Izakey: offline commits is really independent of whether a revision control system is centralized or decentralized
18:33.56 brlcad the problem really is that svn doesn't yet support offline commits (someone was working on the feature a while back, but it was pushed back for something else iirc)
18:34.37 brlcad that was one of the key features of one of the svn forks from a few years back
18:35.23 dracarys983 brlcad: Right. I'll work on that :)
18:35.55 brlcad sofat: hrm, well then maybe you need a different library, or need to customize the library, or ...
18:35.58 vasc at least you can make offline diffs. you couldn't do that in CVS.
18:36.12 vasc you can also revert offline. another thing CVS couldn't do.
18:36.20 sofat I will try to customize this but this not work
18:37.21 sofat because this library only store the states of menu not store the which state is active
18:37.49 dracarys983 brlcad: If you have gone through the patch -- any comments?
18:38.09 brlcad sofat: there is almost certainly some way to set a CSS state/class/div which could denote a highlight
18:38.15 brlcad sofat: what are you using for the menu?
18:38.34 gurwinder brlcad: yes, arbn and arb8 are different
18:38.43 brlcad dracarys983: that you're a little bit behind? :)
18:38.59 sofat <PROTECTED>
18:39.11 brlcad dracarys983: my concerns are going to be *quite* different from daniel's and others
18:39.22 dracarys983 brlcad: Too much I guess. You're being kind :)
18:39.23 brlcad I look at it from where this code is going and what code we have
18:39.48 dracarys983 Too much left behind I mean.
18:40.43 sofat with help of css i do if i use a:visited
18:41.03 sofat then i highlight the link which are open recently
18:41.22 brlcad I mainly don't want to end up with four ways to calculate volumes .. so to me it's critical that you get something in place that is easily replaceable and that there are efforts towards consolidating the other implementations
18:42.30 brlcad sofat: treemenu.js is not useful to me -- a link please
18:42.35 sofat http://www.treemenu.net/
18:43.19 brlcad what is the license on that?
18:44.43 brlcad sofat: this may work better -- at least the demo right there on their site has expansion and hilights
18:44.46 brlcad http://www.easyjstree.com
18:44.50 brlcad and mit license
18:45.28 dracarys983 brlcad: I'm in bit of a pickle here. What I'm implementing right now is required to be such that we can rid of rtweight?
18:46.03 sofat this is not provide state remainder option
18:46.11 brlcad ditto http://www.jstree.com
18:46.49 brlcad sofat: showing the current selection is slightly more important than remembering the menu state
18:47.25 brlcad dracarys983: eh, no, not exactly
18:48.28 brlcad the point is to create API for calculating volume, no?
18:48.42 brlcad and make that available in the C++ engine
18:48.56 sofat if i use a:visited attribute it is not ok ?
18:49.38 dracarys983 Yeah that's the point. So, actually my question is that do I need to improve the present implementation in libanalyze?
18:49.54 brlcad sofat: I have no information to answer that question
18:50.42 dracarys983 And by consolidating the other implementations -- you mean I need to get a implementation better than gqa or rtweight, right?
18:51.50 dracarys983 Right now I have started by a simple implementation and I'm trying to get it working with the API. Then I can improve the implementation?
18:52.02 brlcad dracarys983: that was a point made a couple weeks ago -- there's a low risk path and a high risk one and the decision was towards a lower-risk path
18:52.20 brlcad you're not going to have a better implementation taking the low-risk path
18:52.35 brlcad at best, you'll have the same implementation (and that's fine)
18:53.22 brlcad sofat: it's not a question of time
18:54.20 brlcad sofat: to get put to use, it needs to have all the little usability concerns addressed -- this will likely take a few iterations after you think it's done
18:55.08 brlcad just because you got through one list does not mean that was a complete list ;)
18:55.22 brlcad dracarys983: this is what we want to avoid: https://xkcd.com/927/
18:56.38 brlcad even if not scoped for GSoC, there needs to be nothing in the implementation that precludes it from being leveraged either in rtweight or gqa, especially if it's the same algorithm
19:01.39 dracarys983 Yeah yeah, I get you. Sorry for the down time.
19:02.07 dracarys983 I'll be more communicative now. AND I'll try my best to catch up
19:04.35 sofat brlcad, what is next list of updates please tell me .
19:06.14 dracarys983 brlcad: Right now, I'm implementing Volume() function in C++ interface. Then I'll get the implementation in libanalyze atleast as good as gqa. That's the plan for this week. Sounds good?
19:06.34 ih8sum3r brlcad: My question is little weird but I am facing bit problem. I had tried to google it out but I'm not satisfied. I need to install particular version of node and mongodb on freebsd but when I install it through make as well as pkg install it always returns latest version of it. I want to install particular version of node and mongo. Is there any command for doing so or do I need to download tar file and then install.
19:12.35 vasc you would be better off downloading the tar file and installing it yourself in /opt/ or /usr/local or something
19:13.08 vasc otherwise every time you update it will clobber your previous install
19:13.44 vasc or you recode your work so that it works with latest version of those deps
19:18.55 brlcad starseeker: interesting dvcs article, thanks
19:19.17 brlcad sofat: irrelevant until you finish the previous list :)
19:19.37 brlcad highlighting the page being currently viewed is important
19:20.22 brlcad dracarys983: I don't follow -- you're implementing it in C++ and C? shouldn't the C++ interface simply call the C verison?
19:20.33 *** join/#brlcad Izakey (~Isaac@41.205.22.56)
19:21.59 ih8sum3r I'm working with latest version only but due to some dependency problem I need to look for it. As I have read that meteor is tested on node v 0.10 and mongo version 2.4.x. So I wanted to test them.
19:22.03 brlcad ih8sum3r: you probably need to download a tar file and install
19:22.27 dracarys983 Yeah. I'm just writing the caller function Volume() which calls the ft_volume() entry if it has a rt_*_volume() implemented, else the libanalyze one.
19:22.47 brlcad getting the latest to work is more desirable unless it just can't work (and can't be somewhat easily fixed - couple days effort)
19:23.04 brlcad dracarys983: okay
19:23.14 vasc reads about GCC 5.2 changes
19:23.23 vasc great. c++ keeps getting more bloated and useless.
19:23.44 Stragus What did they add?
19:23.56 Stragus I'm usually fond of the GCC extensions to the C language, never really looked at the C++ ones
19:24.10 vasc https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-5/changes.html
19:25.58 Stragus Woohoo, C now has overflow arithmetic intrinsics!
19:26.30 Stragus I had to use inline assembly whenever I needed that stuff
19:28.02 Stragus Still no good for sane big number arithmetics though
19:29.39 vasc i actually think it would be nice if they rolled some opencl things into c proper
19:29.47 vasc like the vector instruction support
19:30.12 Stragus Tsk. That doesn't belong to C
19:30.20 vasc all the world is not a VAX
19:30.23 vasc or a PDP
19:30.41 Stragus We have all the intrinsics for machine-specific SIMD
19:30.43 vasc why is C still fixated on a PDP ISA
19:30.53 vasc yes and we had assembly before C
19:31.15 vasc BCPL
19:31.20 vasc just great. you had TWO types
19:31.32 vasc machine word size integer and machine word size pointer
19:31.35 vasc why add more?
19:32.00 Stragus Because manipulating 8 or 16 bits value is handy in many cases
19:32.12 vasc see
19:32.17 vasc vector also handy in many cases
19:32.42 ``Erik sneaks address and decrement parts into your registers when you're not looking
19:33.27 Stragus Vector instructions are highly specific to each architecture
19:34.09 Stragus A "generic" _mm_dp_ps() could be awfully slow on some archs, quite fast on others. What now?
19:34.45 ``Erik looks for _mm_dp_ps in the neon simd spec
19:34.58 vasc just add those in opencl
19:35.48 vasc as for some instructions being slower than others that was always a problem even in c
19:36.06 vasc at one point you had to consider if you should use a multiplication or a couple of additions
19:36.11 Stragus It's not just "slower"
19:36.36 Stragus Emulating _mm_dp_ps() is like 20 times slower on SSE than with SSE 4.1, where it's a single instruction
19:37.31 vasc so what
19:37.40 vasc division was also a lot slower than addition at one point
19:37.49 vasc still is kinda slow
19:37.52 Stragus It's still a *lot* slower
19:38.23 Stragus So you don't want to present just a generic pseudo-SIMD interface which has to translate the code into whatever the machine can do
19:38.40 Stragus When you write SIMD code, you care about performance, therefore you want to construct the code with everything the machine can offer
19:39.18 vasc not necessarily
19:40.06 vasc and nothing forbids you from using intrinsics or inline asm in the vector c
19:40.13 vasc opencl support inline asm
19:40.52 vasc at least the nvidia one does
19:40.54 Stragus Didn't know that about OpenCL. You can output AMD assembly or Nvidia PTX?
19:42.45 vasc dunno about AMD but you can do emit PTX with nvcc
19:43.00 vasc you just use -S like you would with C
19:43.03 Stragus Right. On Nvidia, OpenCL is pretty much CUDA with less features
19:44.17 vasc its useful to debug code
19:45.50 Stragus CUDA supports printf(), which is a blessing compared to OpenGL's GLSL
19:46.01 Stragus Debugging complex OpenGL shaders is seriously annoying
19:49.37 vasc gpu programming is a pain. period.
19:49.44 vasc no memory protection.
19:50.22 vasc made a mistake with pointers? driver crash and restart in windows and on linux its probably a hardware reset and OS reboot
19:51.09 Stragus Uh...
19:51.21 vasc its like programming in ms-dos
19:51.22 Stragus I have never had a driver crash and restart on Linux
19:51.31 Stragus And there is memory protection
19:51.37 vasc no on linux i have had system freeze
19:51.45 vasc not if you are doing gpgpu you don't
19:52.30 Stragus You get CUDA_ERROR_LAUNCH_FAILED when a kernel does the GPU equivalent of a segfault
19:52.35 vasc try make a cuda or opencl program that keeps writing garbage on the entire address space and you will see what happens
19:52.53 vasc yes sometimes that happens
19:52.58 Stragus I haven't tried *that*, but I did write many buggy kernels :p
19:53.01 vasc other times the whole system freezes
19:53.07 Stragus Okay, it has never happened to me
19:53.12 vasc lucky you
19:53.58 vasc then again i'm the guy who made our uni server crawl to its knees with a fork bomb i wrote by mistake once so...
19:54.10 Stragus Eheh, cool
19:54.24 vasc i made a one line error and programed a fork bomb
19:54.46 vasc the sysadms saw i was using too much cpu time and they disabled my login access
19:54.56 vasc so i couldn't login and kill the process
19:54.58 Stragus What's your hardware? I think old Tesla had issues with "memory protection"
19:55.06 Stragus Ahah
19:55.09 vasc then after 2-3 minutes everyone started complaining they couldn't anymore
19:55.28 vasc so i had to go into the sysadm office to tell them to either let me login and kill the process or do it themselves.
19:56.11 vasc couldn't work anymore
19:56.32 Stragus They should have done a killall -u besides disabling the login
19:56.51 vasc they thought they were really smart because they had per process cpu quotas
19:57.07 vasc but my fork bomb kept changing the process pid you know
19:57.16 vasc so by the time they killed a pid some other pid had been launched
19:57.29 vasc anyway
19:57.34 *** join/#brlcad sofat (~sofat@202.164.45.212)
19:57.52 Stragus killall :p
19:58.08 vasc yeah that's what i wanted to do but i couldn't login anymore
19:58.20 vasc kill -9 -1
20:00.41 vasc i think it was a solaris box with 6 cpus
20:01.16 vasc ultrasparc processors
20:01.26 vasc or was it the 8 cpu one with the sparc whatever processors
20:01.29 vasc can't remember
20:04.40 vasc yeah i think it was the 8 cpu one
20:05.15 vasc man the big undergraduate programming assignments were always a pain
20:05.26 vasc like 100-200 people writing code on that server at the same time
20:05.51 vasc then someone goofs up and you can't work minutes or hours
20:06.17 vasc it was UNIX so the OS didn't crash, but it could slow to a crawl
20:07.59 *** join/#brlcad merzo (~merzo@8-49-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net)
20:08.41 vasc that's why i started using linux, so i could work on UNIX assignments home
20:42.44 vasc i'm still refactoring stuff. see you tomorrow.
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21:25.44 konrado brlcad: hello
21:26.14 konrado sofat: hello
21:26.22 sofat hello
21:27.18 sofat konrado, hello
21:30.34 konrado sofat: My name is Konrad a fellow GSoC participant working on x3d importer. I have been seeing the work you have been doing on the website and I would just like to say I admire it.
21:33.34 konrado I am not really experienced with html, css and other web technologies but took a course on them this semester
21:35.20 konrado although I don't thing the knowledge I acquired could be of any really product use
21:39.04 sofat konrado, welcome in brlcad.
21:39.23 sofat so what you want to do ?
21:40.00 sofat which type work you want to do web based or software .
21:42.05 konrado I think a mix of both software and some server-side web programming
21:43.57 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Bhollister * 9050 /wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg: /* Proposed subcommands */
21:44.45 konrado but I have some close friends who are really interested in just web programming but they are new to it and I can not really motivate them
21:45.53 konrado maybe they could try contributing to BRL-CAD and you could motivate them
21:47.17 sofat okay there some project some are under gsoc or some not
21:47.17 sofat benchmark database in djanog
21:47.17 sofat django
21:47.17 sofat material database in mediawiki ( php)
21:47.23 sofat docbook synchronization with wordpress (php)
21:47.49 sofat ogv (php and javascript )
21:54.40 *** join/#brlcad sofat (~sofat@202.164.45.204)
21:55.19 konrado I guess this are some good starting points though I can not really judge. I personally am interested in ogv but like I said my php and javascript skill are not that good.
21:56.58 sofat no problem when you start the work, your skill will increases
21:57.58 sofat so now ogv divided into two parts first is front-end work(GUI improvement) and Back-end
21:59.40 sofat if you start the work on front-end then I think this is easy step to work on this project and also help you in learning js,css,html
22:03.03 konrado I could do experimenting with javascript whenever my GSoC project is finished and production ready
22:03.27 sofat okay
22:03.39 sofat are you gsocer ?? ;-)
22:05.15 konrado yes I am, I said so earlier. I am working on the BRL-CAD x3d importer
22:05.45 sofat sorry okay
22:09.31 ih8sum3r Older version of OGV is in php, lastest version is in javascript (Meteor,js Framework)
22:10.00 sofat konrado, ogv developer here
22:11.31 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Bhollister * 9051 /wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg: /* Proposed subcommands */
22:14.49 *** join/#brlcad konrado (~konro@41.205.22.36)
22:17.00 konrado thank you for the clarification ih8sum3r
22:21.16 konrado ih8sum3r: are you also a gsocer, if yes then are you Deepak or Shubham
22:23.05 ih8sum3r Yes I am gsocer and I am Deepak ;)
22:31.02 konrado Thats nice, since this is my first time communicating with other gsocers although I have been trying find-out what other have been working on.
22:56.07 konrado ih8sum3r: I though power-outage was an issue experienced only here in Africa.
22:57.15 ih8sum3r Sometimes it happens in India too. Not that much but happens.
23:00.19 sofat yes
23:01.40 ih8sum3r It specially happens when you are doing serious conversation on IRC ;)
23:13.45 *** join/#brlcad konrado (~konro@41.205.22.24)
23:15.33 konrado ih8sum3r: are you there
23:17.39 ih8sum3r yes
23:17.55 konrado can someone start contributing to ogv with just some beginner level javascript and no experience with nodejs
23:19.44 ih8sum3r Yes can just go through simple todo app of meteor.js from meteor official site and you are ready to go.
23:21.11 ih8sum3r I personally love this : http://www.meteor-tutorial.org/book
23:23.57 bhollister2 starseeker: i replied to the mailing list messages about nmg. before i proceed, you may want to comment on http://brlcad.org/wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg#Proposed_subcommands
23:24.37 bhollister2 brlcad: i replied to the mailing list messages about nmg. before i proceed, you may want to comment on http://brlcad.org/wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg#Proposed_subcommands
23:25.21 bhollister2 mainly need feedback on marking model parts
23:25.33 bhollister2 via command-line
23:26.10 bhollister2 brlcad: you and starseeker should have also gotten my email about jury duty.
23:26.20 bhollister2 for the week of august 3rd
23:30.28 *** join/#brlcad konrado (~konro@41.205.22.50)
23:36.37 Notify 03BRL-CAD Wiki:Bhollister * 9052 /wiki/MGED_CMD_nmg: /* Proposed subcommands */

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